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To: D-fendr

What was that Catholic plan of salvation again?

Bland assertions don't cut the mustard. What was that secret knowledge taught by Christ to his Apostles that we cannot otherwise find in the scriptures? Was it in the writings of the early church fathers? If it be in the early practice, then what do know of that but which has been written concerning it?

If there be evidence or belief in that, then lets severely restrict that which we can claim is "of the faith taught by Christ to His Apostles" to the first generation or two of church writers. For if they do not speak of a thing, or they speak contrary to that which later arises (which can be found to have occurred) then how can we then say with any certainty that something coming into discussion in the late 2nd century and even much later like the forth, fifth or sixth--- can be said to have been of the original teachings, if we are not consulting the scriptures --- or some secret body of teachings kept hidden from us all so well?

Viva Voce? (Whatever we say?)

I was told earlier today that 3 of the solas have long been accepted by the Catholic Church. One of them, by grace alone I highlighted in bold, just as I have here, and pinged your own self to my original comment here, for that very reason. Grace.

380 posted on 01/19/2012 10:20:54 PM PST by BlueDragon (on'a $10 horse an' a $40 saddle I'm going up the trail with them longhorn cattle c'm uh ty-yi-yipy-)
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To: BlueDragon
What was that Catholic plan of salvation again?

"Unless Qué será, será is a plan of salvation" was a [poor] joke.

On this part that you question: "they sought what was coherent and consistent of the faith taught by Christ to His Apostles."

You see the clearest examples of this in the early councils, on who Christ is contra the heresies, quite expressly. This is what kept the Christian religion what it is today. It still does: we are not Calvinists or Oneness Pentecostals or Dispensationists; but, one faith, One Lord, one baptism. Note that the heresies also argued from scripture. It was the apostolic Church that had the authority to affirm apostolic teaching for the Church.

Sola scriptura is an example of what happens without it, fragmentation, division, error, individualism.

One of them, by grace alone

The Church affirmed the doctrine of sola gratia at the Council of Orange, which condemned the Pelagian heresy. However to compare this to the Protestant view of the five solas would off. The five solas emmerged to summarize the Reformers theology in contradistinction to the teaching of the Church. If you look at them, you see this distinction.

We obviously have many similarities but in toto the five solas are intended to go against Church teaching.

Thanks for your courteous reply.

420 posted on 01/20/2012 9:51:50 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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