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To: bibletruth; Bill W was a conservative; verga; thesaleboat; Sick of Lefties; Chainmail; ...
“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “
9 posted on 01/16/2012 12:59:46 AM PST by narses
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To: narses
Where exactly are the words "Pope" or "Bishop" found in the Bible? Thanks.
234 posted on 01/18/2012 9:16:49 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: narses
From David MacD:

Isn't there only one mediator between God and man?

I got an email that said:

Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24)...It can not be made any clearer in the scriptures that God wants to communicate with us directly, and to be cautious of those who try to step in to mediate.

1 Timothy 2 does not say that God wants us only to communicate with Jesus. It says there is only one mediator between God and man, which is a different thing. The passage does not say we should be cautious of asking people to pray for us. It doesn't do anything of the sort. The chapter begins requiring intercessory prayer by 3rd parties, indicating that it actually helps bring people to salvation and knowledge of truth. Any mother who prays for her children knows that.

1. I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone ...This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4. who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

We cannot read the rest of the chapter without considering that overarching idea. I think that Christians in heaven pray through Christ much better than you and me. They are much closer to Christ than you and me. Evangelicals pray for each other, and they don't say they are taking God's place. When we pray for one another we are participating in the mediation, we are not the mediator. Catholics feel that saints in heaven, including Mary, can pray for us just as well (or infinitely better) than our friends on earth.

In Hebrews 8:6, it says Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry than any of the high priests. In 9:15 and 12:24 the passage goes on to say he is the mediator of a New Covenant, Catholics fully agree. We fully agree he is the mediator. We think Christians in heaven are a heck of a lot more aware of who Christ is than we are. The Bible says that he has helpers that participate in his ministry by his invitation. We believe he has invited Christians on both sides of heaven to do that.

When a saint enters into the joy of their Master, they are "put in charge of many things" (Mat 25:21)

Saints are serious prayer warriors. I don't think that praying with the Saints detracts from the worship of God anymore than praying with friends detracts from worship of God, which I do a lot. Saints are not all knowing, but they know a heck of a lot more about this spiritual game than me. They are creatures. This does not take away the tremendous benefit we can get from communing with them. Catholics think "their intercession is their most exalted service to God's plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world" (Catechism 2683)


431 posted on 01/20/2012 8:33:29 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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