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To: Salvation; All
We also ask her to pray for us. Anything wrong with that?

I see repeatedly that Catholics on this post argue that praying to Mary to ask her to pray for them is like asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Are these equal? Is asking some believer in heaven to pray for us the same thing as asking your mother, wife, children to pray for us?

Let's examine this claim. In the Epistles Paul often asks believers to pray to for him. Now take notice here, the God of heaven appointed the Apostle Paul to say these words, so let's examine other words which God inspired Paul to write regarding prayer (I.E, these are not man made up mens words). Paul in Ephesians 6:19 is asking for prayer that he may be bold to open his mouth to proclaim the mystery of the gospel; not in order to receive earthly things or earthly blessings. Several other Scriptures assert believers to pray for one another: Ephesians 1:16 - believers are to pray for each others knowledge of Christ in wisdom and revelation; 2 Timothy 1:3 - Paul prayer for other believers faith; 2 Corinthians 1:11 - believers to pray for Paul's deliverance from so great a death and that he continue to have strength to trust that God/Christ will deliver us again; Philippians 1:19 - believers are to pray that Christ is preached in boldness and that only Christ shall be magnified, not the flesh of man.

In light of the purpose and motivation of these scriptures (above), which God is inspiring Paul to write, there exists no other scripture verse that alludes to any person asking for some other person who is currently in heaven, to pray for them on earth. The Word of God has no other scripture that describes a believer in heaven praying for an earthly soul on earth!

Furthermore, the Word of God has absolutely no indication that Mary or any other believer saint in heaven can hear earth resident prayers. In order for Mary or another saint to hear earth resident people it would require Mary, or others, to be omniscient; however, no scripture declares that anyone except God is omniscient! Therefore, Mary is not omniscient, which is an attribute that would be required of her in order for her to possibly hear the prayers of millions of people whom none have met each other? For Mary to know some person on earth, she would need to be omniscient! But only God is omniscient! Only God can hear the prayers of missions of people on earth.

On the other hand, when the Bible does mentions prays or speaking with the dead, the reference and topic in context is that of witchcraft, wizardy, sorcery, necromancy, and activities of divination. God's Word strongly condemns this practice, in Leviticus 20:27, it says those that practice praying to the dead shall be put to death by stoning; furthermore, in Deuteronomy 18:10-13 God says that those who practice these things are an abomination unto the LORD and that they use be driven from outside the camp of Israel. In 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel ask to speak with a spirit in necromancy and divination, and in verse 18 the spirit of the dead women proclaims that Samuel did not obey the voice of the LORD regarding Amalek; even though God forbid praying to the dead in Leviticus 19:31 and 20:6. But what result do we find here after prayer for the dead to help Saul: the LORD delivered Israel into the hand of the Philistines - total failure for Samuel!

It is clear that praying to Mary or other saints is completely different than from asking some person on earth to pray for us, as we see in 2 Timothy 1:3, Ephesians 1:16, 2 Corinthians 1:11, Philippians 1:19. We see from the Word of God that praying to the dead has no Biblical basis.

86 posted on 01/16/2012 10:41:19 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: bibletruth
Furthermore, the Word of God has absolutely no indication that Mary or any other believer saint in heaven can hear earth resident prayers.

There is another possibility that certainly does not require omniscience. God could reveal the need to Mary or the other saints.

Haven't you ever heard someone say, or even said yourself, God put it on my heart to pray for you?

88 posted on 01/16/2012 10:47:51 PM PST by newberger (Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men in whom there is no salvation.)
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To: bibletruth; Salvation
babytoot in Leviticus 20:27, it says those that practice praying to the dead shall be put to death by stoning;

27 “‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’

Do read the Bible, bt, it is not good to distort it. Leviticug talks of mediums and conversing with the dead. Through God's grace if one asks others, whether on this world or alive in Christ in the next, to pray for us is not the same.

do read the Bible.

100 posted on 01/17/2012 12:40:14 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: bibletruth; Salvation
2 Tim 1:3 shows Paul asking others to pray for him 3 I thank God, whom I serve, as my ancestors did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers. just as we ask others whether here on this earth or alive in Christ on the next (through God's grace) to join us in our prayers to Christ.
101 posted on 01/17/2012 12:41:41 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: bibletruth
In 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel ask to speak with a spirit in necromancy and divination, and in verse 18 the spirit of the dead women proclaims that Samuel did not obey the voice of the LORD regarding Amalek

I know you mean well brother but it was Saul, not Samuel who did all that stuff.

But what result do we find here after prayer for the dead to help Saul: the LORD delivered Israel into the hand of the Philistines - total failure for Samuel!

Nope, "total failure" for Saul, not Samuel.

You seem to have your narrative a little confused.

469 posted on 01/31/2012 9:30:00 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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