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To: vanilla swirl
1. We in orthodoxy have always believed and taught that Jesus IS the mediator between man and God -- right from Apostolic times
2. Nope, this was not kept that "only priesthood could interpret them" -- firstly it was in Latin when most folks could read (in Roman times) but literacy plummetted in the Middle Ages and there were a bunch of new languages which were evolving and did not have fixed meanings as Latin and Greek, advanced languages, did. Until the 1800s most people in the West were unable to read or write. Until the 1400s and the invention of the printing press by Gutenburg (a Catholic by the way), a book cost more than a year's salary. It did not substantially improve until the time of the French Revolution while universal schools even in England were a product of Victorian sensibilities.
The aim was to prevent distortions as in for instance the distortion that is the Jehovah's Witness bible
85 posted on 01/16/2012 10:39:10 PM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Cronos

” 1. We in orthodoxy have always believed and taught that Jesus IS the mediator between man and God “

So why do Catholics pray to Mary and “the saints”?
And don’t try to argue semantics, if you control the language you control the message. Praying to Mary is a left over pagan practice.
Mary and “the saints” are dead and have no more power than you have. When Jesus was on the cross the temple curtain was “rent assunder” meaning there is no longer separation between God and man. There is no need for anybody else to do our praying for us.


97 posted on 01/16/2012 11:54:02 PM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: vanilla swirl; Salvation
1. it's not just Catholics -- it's shared by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, the other Eastern Christians, and even some Anglicans. This dates from the first centuries, early Christians
2. we don't pray to saints -- we ask them to pray for us, just as we request others here to pray for us, when people pass from this life, they are alive in Christ, right? So why can't they pray for us? in fact Revelation 5:8 talks of prayers of the saints to God.
3. Nope, it's not a pagan practise, anymore than the same liberal view that Christianity is a pagan practise (where the same liberals who point out about praying for others as a pagan practise also say that Odin was crucified and compare the resurrection of Baal etc.)
4. Christ is the unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man, the only God-man, all prayers of people here on earth, of saints in heaven go through Christ, the ONE mediator between God and man
5.vanilla: "There is no need for anybody else to do our praying for us." -- do you mean to say that you don't ask friends and family to ever pray for you?
6. vanilla: "Mary and “the saints” are dead "
and John 11:25 ""I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"" -- they who are with Christ are alive in Christ
7. " When Jesus was on the cross the temple curtain was “rent assunder” meaning there is no longer separation between God and man." -> which is why Jesus Christ is the One Mediator between God and man -- all our prayers, whether we be sinners or saints, in this world or the next, go through Jesus Christ.

99 posted on 01/17/2012 12:36:25 AM PST by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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