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ONE mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus
Bible 1 Timothy 2:5 | 2012 | BibleTruth

Posted on 01/15/2012 10:10:29 PM PST by bibletruth

1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: christmediator; godappointedchrist; intercessors; onemediator; yopios
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To: RobbyS; Tramonto
Choosing to accept Jesus as one’s personal behavior is itself a “work.” A free choice, anyway. When you reject “works,”you are just rejecting the fact of the Church, or rather much of Holy Tradition. Luther rejected the particularities of the Church of Rome; he also rejected the sacramental system, or most of it, that was common to Both Rome and Constantinope. But he accepted a “German”church. Here he had only partial success because the Emperor and the local princes were engaged in a struggle for mastery that ended in a stalemate that left Germany divided religiously. Calvin had a far more coherent, universalist view —a “counter-Catholicism—so it speak. But it is also a very ascetic point of view. In a way it kind of turns the Church into an enlarged monastery. The monks are replaced as the Christian elite by the “Elect.”

When a person exercises their will by the grace of God to accept His gift of eternal life, he does so through the mechanism of faith. Faith is trust, it is the "confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." (Hebrews 11:1) To say that faith is a "work" is an error because it is not any outward act but an inward, mental and emotional assent, a concession, agreeing with God in acceptance of his promises. And I have NEVER rejected works but I have repeatedly said that works - outward actions - do not merit or earn grace. We are not saved by our works, not even faith AND works, but by faith apart from works. That seems to be the sticking point and to depend upon our works to merit Heaven is to reject God's undeserved grace.

Tramonto mentioned in an earlier post about substituting the word mercy for grace. Although it is because of God's mercy that we are not burned up (consumed), grace is so much more than that. Mercy is not giving us what we deserve. Grace is giving us what we do not deserve. Mercy is why we even have any hope of forgiveness. Grace creates within us a new nature that is positionally seated with Christ in the heavenlies, redeemed and adopted as God's own children.

441 posted on 01/21/2012 6:38:22 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: boatbums; RobbyS; Tramonto; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...

What we mean by works is performing certain actions and counting on them to attain salvation, or favor, or mercy or grace.

Actions such as baptism, going to confession, doing penance, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison, etc, The things that Jesus commended the sheep for that they did without any self-awareness of. They didn’t think that they were doing the good works to earn salvation. Their reaction indicates a surprise that the works meant anything.

Any work done for the purpose of attaining salvation is done for the wrong motive from the start. Jesus said if we love Him, we’ll obey His commandments. Our obedience is a natural outworking of the love we have for Him. If we have to decide to go do some good work because we’re obligated to or need to to earn salvation, it’s being done for the wrong reason and is simply legalism.

The other thing is, it’s not that we don’t think we don’t have to DO something. John says that as many as receive Him who God gave power to become the children of God. Jesus’ message was to repent. So yeah, in that respect, we have to do something. We have to respond. But it’s not works that we can chalk up to see if we’ve made the grade or done enough to tip the scales.

It gets back to the thinking that man is basically good and sometimes does wrong which disqualifies him from entering heaven so if he just does something right, he can make up for it and get in, compared to the realization that we are ALL doomed. We are all reprobate and in our hearts dwells NO good thing. We are all corrupt and wayward and all deserving of death and hell for the sin we’ve committed against God. Then we realize that there is absolutely NOTHING that we can do to save ourselves and that’s when we throw ourselves on God’s mercy and cry out to Jesus and ask Him to do for us what we can’t do for ourselves, that is save us.

THAT is trusting Him and that is exhibiting saving faith.

As long as a person thinks that there is something they can do or contribute to their own salvation, they will remain lost because they will never reach the point of trusting Christ fully and entering into the blessing of abandoning themselves to Him.


442 posted on 01/21/2012 8:05:56 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: trebb
Ergo, while she did not originate God the Father or God the Holy Spirit, she was the mother of God the Son.

Ergo, she did not originate The Word who was made flesh who at the beginning was with God and was God, long before Mary ever came into existence.

443 posted on 01/21/2012 8:56:12 PM PST by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Bellflower
Ergo, she did not originate The Word who was made flesh who at the beginning was with God and was God, long before Mary ever came into existence.

Semantics can work either way. God asked via the angel; Mary was faithful and agreed; Mary was with Child; Mary gave birth; Jesus (God the Son/Immanuel) was born of Mary's flesh. God desired a human experience to demonstrate His Love and his relationship with us and set the stage. In God's world, being a Mother does not necessitate being the originator.

444 posted on 01/22/2012 6:09:44 AM PST by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: trebb; Bellflower
God asked via the angel;

God did no such thing. He TOLD via the angel.

Luke 1:26-38 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”

29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”

35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. 36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

445 posted on 01/22/2012 11:03:22 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: boatbums
What we mean by works is performing certain actions and counting on them to attain salvation, or favor, or mercy or grace. I do not see how answering an altar call is any different that any of these, if that is you objection.
446 posted on 01/22/2012 11:46:20 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: metmom

Now you are playing with words. The word “angel”mean messenger. In this case, the message was the messenger. We do not know if Mary literally SAW an image, as is depicted by many artists, or whether it happened as Zefferelli depicts it in his “Jesus of Nazareth.” where she sees “the light”. In any case, God communicated with her, asked her consents, and did not like Jove, rape her.


447 posted on 01/22/2012 11:54:57 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
I wouldn't put too much stock in that "Joint" Declaration. Many of the Lutherans (as well as others) left the Protestant reservation years ago. Please note the following statement from the Joint Declaration:

Oops. This is code words for, "Well, forget what is history. We decided to change our theology to suit us." This often occurs in many Catholic writings. If you would like an example just go to New Advent (the Catholic dictionary) and look up atonement. It pops up all over the place. We become "enlightened" because we have new insight. HA!

There is no such thing as different views of justification. The definition of infusion is quite clear that one has to work for their salvation. It is also quite wrong.

448 posted on 01/22/2012 12:46:20 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Many of the Lutherans (as well as others) left the Protestant reservation years ago

Or did the reservation leave the Lutherans?

Who has the authority to determine which group is right, if both groups are operating under the principle of Sola Scriptura?

449 posted on 01/22/2012 1:47:37 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: RobbyS
I do not see how answering an altar call is any different that any of these, if that is you objection.

Answering an altar call is no guarantee of salvation and many people get saved without ever stepping foot inside a church first.

450 posted on 01/22/2012 2:28:51 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: RobbyS
In any case, God communicated with her, asked her consents, and did not like Jove, rape her.

Since God didn't have sex with her, the charge of God *raping* her is ludicrous. Unless you're Mormon? Are you?

Show me in all that exchange where God asks her permission.

451 posted on 01/22/2012 2:31:10 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: HarleyD; St_Thomas_Aquinas
Our common way of listening to the word of God in Scripture has led to such new insights.

And Catholics complain to US about YOPIOS????

452 posted on 01/22/2012 2:53:13 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; HarleyD
Who has the authority to determine which group is right, if both groups are operating under the principle of Sola Scriptura?

Do Catholics always have to have someone making their decisions for them? Do they always have to have their hand held when addressing spiritual matters?

453 posted on 01/22/2012 2:56:16 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
God did no such thing. He TOLD via the angel.

Good point. God did not need Mary's permission. Mary would do as God said because God is the orchestrator of human history and not subject to it. God's Word must come to past.

454 posted on 01/22/2012 6:14:33 PM PST by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: metmom

You don’t believe that God can have a relationship with a human being, except that of master to slave? How Islamic.


455 posted on 01/22/2012 11:02:01 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; metmom
Who has the authority to determine which group is right, if both groups are operating under the principle of Sola Scriptura?

Well, I thought that we 1) decide by what is plainly read in the scriptures and 2) decide what is correct by the fathers. When Paul states:

it seems rather obvious. I don't need a bunch of people telling me "Well, Paul doesn't quite mean imputed."

If there is any doubt of what Paul was talking about, I'm sure that he was thinking back to the reverse senario of the Old Testament:

It's rather clear that when sin or righteousness is "imputed" then it is permanent.
456 posted on 01/23/2012 3:45:09 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

— Well, I thought that we 1) decide by what is plainly read in the scriptures and 2) decide what is correct by the fathers.—

According to what authority? Jesus does not lay these commands down for us as a way of settling disagreements.

(And again, aren’t most Protestant groups following these principles? How then can their disagreements be resolved?)

I do see Jesus commanding us to take our disagreements to His church, the same church which the gates of hell would not prevail against. This church must necessarily be visible, otherwise His command would be practically impossible to carry out, thus making His command vain or useless.


457 posted on 01/23/2012 6:52:32 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
According to what authority? Jesus does not lay these commands down for us as a way of settling disagreements.

Can't Catholics do something or make any decisions without someone doing the thinking for them?

Scripture is the authority and the Holy Spirit guides us.

You know, people are not so stupid or spiritually blind that they need some self-appointed leaders to do it all for them.

Just for the record, how do you know that the authority you choose to put yourself under is right?

458 posted on 01/23/2012 7:13:12 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: RobbyS

Why are you changing the subject?

Tell me. Could Mary have said no?

If she was sinless, as Catholics claim, did she have the free will to say no? Was not God keeping her sinless overriding her free will?

Hello.... Mary was told by an angel that she would be the woman chosen to carry the Messiah. Like she would have said no? I’ll bet it was every young Jewish girl’s dream to have that privilege. Who wouldn’t have submitted to being the one chosen for that privilege?

What would have happened if she had said no? That’s one of those *How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?* type questions.

The facts are....The angel never asked for her permission. He told her what was going to happen to her and she complied. Like it or not, there was never a question asked of her about the matter.


459 posted on 01/23/2012 7:20:52 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Which Church? The Orthodox? The Roman Catholic Church? I find Catholics tend to play rather loosely with this “authority” model. And I’m sure we would both agree that just because the President and a Democratic Congress was in absolute power two years ago, that doesn’t make Obamacare good policy.

The only real authority is scripture because it is the only thing without error.


460 posted on 01/23/2012 12:49:33 PM PST by HarleyD
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