Posted on 01/15/2012 10:10:29 PM PST by bibletruth
When a person exercises their will by the grace of God to accept His gift of eternal life, he does so through the mechanism of faith. Faith is trust, it is the "confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." (Hebrews 11:1) To say that faith is a "work" is an error because it is not any outward act but an inward, mental and emotional assent, a concession, agreeing with God in acceptance of his promises. And I have NEVER rejected works but I have repeatedly said that works - outward actions - do not merit or earn grace. We are not saved by our works, not even faith AND works, but by faith apart from works. That seems to be the sticking point and to depend upon our works to merit Heaven is to reject God's undeserved grace.
Tramonto mentioned in an earlier post about substituting the word mercy for grace. Although it is because of God's mercy that we are not burned up (consumed), grace is so much more than that. Mercy is not giving us what we deserve. Grace is giving us what we do not deserve. Mercy is why we even have any hope of forgiveness. Grace creates within us a new nature that is positionally seated with Christ in the heavenlies, redeemed and adopted as God's own children.
What we mean by works is performing certain actions and counting on them to attain salvation, or favor, or mercy or grace.
Actions such as baptism, going to confession, doing penance, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison, etc, The things that Jesus commended the sheep for that they did without any self-awareness of. They didn’t think that they were doing the good works to earn salvation. Their reaction indicates a surprise that the works meant anything.
Any work done for the purpose of attaining salvation is done for the wrong motive from the start. Jesus said if we love Him, we’ll obey His commandments. Our obedience is a natural outworking of the love we have for Him. If we have to decide to go do some good work because we’re obligated to or need to to earn salvation, it’s being done for the wrong reason and is simply legalism.
The other thing is, it’s not that we don’t think we don’t have to DO something. John says that as many as receive Him who God gave power to become the children of God. Jesus’ message was to repent. So yeah, in that respect, we have to do something. We have to respond. But it’s not works that we can chalk up to see if we’ve made the grade or done enough to tip the scales.
It gets back to the thinking that man is basically good and sometimes does wrong which disqualifies him from entering heaven so if he just does something right, he can make up for it and get in, compared to the realization that we are ALL doomed. We are all reprobate and in our hearts dwells NO good thing. We are all corrupt and wayward and all deserving of death and hell for the sin we’ve committed against God. Then we realize that there is absolutely NOTHING that we can do to save ourselves and that’s when we throw ourselves on God’s mercy and cry out to Jesus and ask Him to do for us what we can’t do for ourselves, that is save us.
THAT is trusting Him and that is exhibiting saving faith.
As long as a person thinks that there is something they can do or contribute to their own salvation, they will remain lost because they will never reach the point of trusting Christ fully and entering into the blessing of abandoning themselves to Him.
Ergo, she did not originate The Word who was made flesh who at the beginning was with God and was God, long before Mary ever came into existence.
Semantics can work either way. God asked via the angel; Mary was faithful and agreed; Mary was with Child; Mary gave birth; Jesus (God the Son/Immanuel) was born of Mary's flesh. God desired a human experience to demonstrate His Love and his relationship with us and set the stage. In God's world, being a Mother does not necessitate being the originator.
God did no such thing. He TOLD via the angel.
Luke 1:26-38 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”
35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. 36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.” 38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
Now you are playing with words. The word “angel”mean messenger. In this case, the message was the messenger. We do not know if Mary literally SAW an image, as is depicted by many artists, or whether it happened as Zefferelli depicts it in his “Jesus of Nazareth.” where she sees “the light”. In any case, God communicated with her, asked her consents, and did not like Jove, rape her.
There is no such thing as different views of justification. The definition of infusion is quite clear that one has to work for their salvation. It is also quite wrong.
Or did the reservation leave the Lutherans?
Who has the authority to determine which group is right, if both groups are operating under the principle of Sola Scriptura?
Answering an altar call is no guarantee of salvation and many people get saved without ever stepping foot inside a church first.
Since God didn't have sex with her, the charge of God *raping* her is ludicrous. Unless you're Mormon? Are you?
Show me in all that exchange where God asks her permission.
And Catholics complain to US about YOPIOS????
Do Catholics always have to have someone making their decisions for them? Do they always have to have their hand held when addressing spiritual matters?
Good point. God did not need Mary's permission. Mary would do as God said because God is the orchestrator of human history and not subject to it. God's Word must come to past.
You don’t believe that God can have a relationship with a human being, except that of master to slave? How Islamic.
Well, I thought that we 1) decide by what is plainly read in the scriptures and 2) decide what is correct by the fathers. When Paul states:
If there is any doubt of what Paul was talking about, I'm sure that he was thinking back to the reverse senario of the Old Testament:
— Well, I thought that we 1) decide by what is plainly read in the scriptures and 2) decide what is correct by the fathers.—
According to what authority? Jesus does not lay these commands down for us as a way of settling disagreements.
(And again, aren’t most Protestant groups following these principles? How then can their disagreements be resolved?)
I do see Jesus commanding us to take our disagreements to His church, the same church which the gates of hell would not prevail against. This church must necessarily be visible, otherwise His command would be practically impossible to carry out, thus making His command vain or useless.
Can't Catholics do something or make any decisions without someone doing the thinking for them?
Scripture is the authority and the Holy Spirit guides us.
You know, people are not so stupid or spiritually blind that they need some self-appointed leaders to do it all for them.
Just for the record, how do you know that the authority you choose to put yourself under is right?
Why are you changing the subject?
Tell me. Could Mary have said no?
If she was sinless, as Catholics claim, did she have the free will to say no? Was not God keeping her sinless overriding her free will?
Hello.... Mary was told by an angel that she would be the woman chosen to carry the Messiah. Like she would have said no? I’ll bet it was every young Jewish girl’s dream to have that privilege. Who wouldn’t have submitted to being the one chosen for that privilege?
What would have happened if she had said no? That’s one of those *How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?* type questions.
The facts are....The angel never asked for her permission. He told her what was going to happen to her and she complied. Like it or not, there was never a question asked of her about the matter.
Which Church? The Orthodox? The Roman Catholic Church? I find Catholics tend to play rather loosely with this “authority” model. And I’m sure we would both agree that just because the President and a Democratic Congress was in absolute power two years ago, that doesn’t make Obamacare good policy.
The only real authority is scripture because it is the only thing without error.
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