ONE mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus

Bible 1 Timothy 2:5 | 2012 | BibleTruth

[bibletruth]

1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.

[jacknhoo]

But this is not against our seeking the prayers and intercession, as well of the faithful upon earth, as of the saints and angels in heaven, for obtaining mercy, grace, and salvation, through Jesus Christ. As St. Paul himself often desired the help of the prayers of the faithful, without any injury to the mediatorship of Jesus Christ.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/61002.htm

[Cronos]

Valid question -- we do believe that God would allow them to hear us, but they have no omniscience or ability of their own, it is God's grace.

Heaven is truly a mystery for us as you say. For me in particular, I don't spend much or any time doing that speaking -- I commune with God in prayer and in the Eucharist and as a Catholic that's good. Requesting saints to pray with you is additional praise to God.

[Cronos]

One cannot rely on self proclaimed Pastors or Priests

Yup -- and any Catholic priest who declares what he wants as theology instantly becomes a non-Catholic preacher.

No individual not even a bishop of rome can raise their individual theology to dogma and none has.

the bogey of some bish being the sole media is just a bogey.

[Cronos]

There is no Pentecostal Church. there are different pentecostal groups.

One of these, the Oneness Pentecostalism DOES deny the trinity. They believe in the Oneness doctrine that there is one God, a singular spirit who manifests himself in many different ways, including as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They baptise in the name of Jesus Christ, commonly referred to as Jesus-name baptism, rather than using the Trinitarian formula.

We have a Oneness Pentecostal here on FR -- Zuriel. To his credit, he has always been civil when debating.

[RobbyS]

Catholics have always spoken of Mary as the second eve. The Ark of the New Covenant. Eve, of course, was created without sin. The Ark is a symbol of purity and holiness, made to his specifications. As to the term, “Mother of God,” or Theotokos, —God-bearer—the term was chosen by the Council of Ephesus is make a statement about who Jesus is. A hundred years before, the Council of Nicaea, repudiated the teaching of Arius that Jesus was only human, if a greatly exaulted human being. Instead they said he is God. Despite this, many Christians continued to hold with Arius, including the son of Constantine, or occupy some middle-ground. Eventually the Niceaean position won out, and in 380, a council affirmed and strengthened the Nicaean position, and also affirmed that the Holy Spirit a divine person. Then came confusion. If Jesus was divine, how could he be truly human? The bishop of Constantinople offered a formula: Mary was the source of his humanity, but not of his divinity. She bore the Saviors but not the god. But this puts a strain on the teaching that the human and divine natures and joined in one person. Therefore in 430, the Church denounced Nestorius, and asserted that when Mary gave birth to Jesus, she was bearing not only man but God, in his second person. In all respects except sin, Jesus is man. He is also God. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God. For Catholics and Orthodox, the Virgin Birth is not merely a greater sign than the birth of Issac or the prophet John, but a miracle like the descent of the Glory of God on the Tabernacle of the people of Israel. Not merely a “miracle” in the narrow sense, but God coming to join his people in person.

[Cronos]

Thanks for that circlecity. Scot -- There are various kinds of Pentecostals. There are the Oneness Pentecostals I referred to who deny the Trinity

then at the other extreme are more "orthodox" ones like the Assemblies of God

you also have the Word of Faith crowd like Benny Hinn (there are 9 gods) and Jesse Duplantis ("you have the power to live or die, God can't kill you" and "I visited heaven and comforted Jesus")

[jacknhoo]

If one does not believe in the “communion of saints,” then one does not believe in the Body of Christ.

Wherefore it is said in the Apocalypse (viii, 4): ‘And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel’ (Summ. Theol., II-II, Q. lxxxiii, a. 4).

If the Apostles and Martyrs, while still in the body, can pray for others, at a time when they must still be anxious for themselves, how much more after their crowns, victories, and triumphs are won! One man, Moses, obtains from God pardon for six hundred thousand men in arms; and Stephen, the imitator of the Lord, and the first martyr in Christ, begs forgiveness for his persecutors; and shall their power be less after having begun to be with Christ? The Apostle Paul declares that two hundred three score and sixteen souls, sailing with him, were freely given him; and, after he is dissolved and has begun to be with Christ, shall he close his lips, and not be able to utter a word in behalf of those who throughout the whole world believed at his preaching of the Gospel? And shall the living dog Vigilantius be better than that dead lion? (”Contra Vigilant.”, n. 6, in P.L., XXIII, 344).

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08070a.htm

[presently no screen name]

We need to remember how jesus became our mediator. He became incarnate by the Virgin Mary

First of all, you should remember to capitalize Jesus like you did Mary.

Second, Mary had nothing to do with the deity of Jesus - Jesus, The Word, always was. And The Word became flesh... Don't give honor to man what belongs to GOD!!

It is ALL about JESUS!!

[vanilla swirl]

“You might want to do some more reading about Jesus Christ,true GOD and true MAN.”

Are you saying there are other sources of the Word of God?

[Siena Dreaming]

What are Mary’s last words in the Bible? “Do whatever he tells you.”

However, her sentiment in Mark 3:21 is likely after Cana.

[RobbyS]

Mary was the mother of Jesus. Jesus was God. But I think you really have a kind of pentacostal notion of Father-Son-Holy Spirit as manifestation of God rather than three persons who share one divine nature. If so, we look at things differently. For Catholics is, at bottom, just one of us. But like our fleshly mother Eve who was before the fall not a sinner. But she is also the first to accept Christ, and we believe, the first to be assumed into heaven, body and soul, as we all hope to be. You seem to regard her as being of no account. That is not what the angel says. He addresses her as a person of great dignity.

[Siena Dreaming]

we do believe that God would allow them to hear us, but they have no omniscience or ability of their own

And why would you believe God allows them to hear you...just because you want to or the church tells you so?

One has to have personal contact with a saint on earth to communicate but a saint in Heaven can hear any prayer directed at them at any time? Sounds suspiciously like omniscience and/or omnipresence to me.

[bibletruth]

Ad Hominem (Personal Attacks) argument is a form of genetic fallacy. Arguments of this fallacy focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; proponents that use this fallacy seek to discredit the position by discrediting those who hold those position. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down.

Why don't we man-up and attack the arguments, rather than me? Or do you prefer to utilize Ad Hominem Personal Attacks which display your fallacy falling flat on its face! Why don't you confront God the Father and tell Him that He made a mistake when He appointed ONE mediator between God and men?

[bibletruth]

Ad Hominem (Personal Attacks) argument is a form of genetic fallacy. Arguments of this fallacy focus not on the evidence for a view but on the character of the person advancing it; proponents that use this fallacy seek to discredit the position by discrediting those who hold those position. It is always important to attack arguments, rather than arguers, and this is where arguments that commit the ad hominem fallacy fall down.

Why don't we man-up and attack the arguments, rather than me? Or do you prefer to utilize Ad Hominem Personal Attacks which display your fallacy falling flat on its face! Why don't you confront God the Father and tell Him that He made a mistake when He appointed ONE mediator between God and men?

[vanilla swirl]

At issue is not “is Jesus God”, but “is Jesus the mediator between us and God the Father”. If He is not then his crucifixion was for naught.

Argue the scripture not just what somebody said a thousand years ago.
The Catholic Church has famously kept the scriptures out of the hands of the people, arguing that only the priesthood somehow were anointed to interpret them.
And no, just because we disagree about what the Catholic Church teaches doesn’t follow that Mormons, JW’s, oneness pentecostals are equally correct.

[crosshairs]

To say Mary is the Mother of God would mean that she would pre-date God the Father. God the Father considers a person righteous because of their faith and trust in God, not their individual piety.

How can Mary be the mother of her Creator?

[crosshairs]

We pray and ask her to intercede with her Son for us.

In other words "c'mon Mary, you're Jesus's mother, he HAS to do what you tell him". This isn't what Catholics will publicly admit to, but it's, in essence, what they are thinking when they pray to Mary as their intercessor.

[presently no screen name]

You seem to regard her as being of no account.

You seem to regard her more than Jesus. Catholics would never believe what they claim about Mary unless they were taught it because it is NOT biblical. Here's what is biblical about Mary.

She was a virgin and then went on to have other children. She is no more blessed than anyone else who HEARS and OBEYS HIS Word. That is what THE WORD says. Now you can hear and disobey all you want but it doesn't end well. Worship of 'man' is idolatry. Being disobedient is not a path to heaven but it's a wide road to destruction.

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." Luke 11:27

He replied, "Blessed rather are those who HEAR the Word of God and OBEY it." Luke 11:28

Matthew 12:46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.

Matthew 12:47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you." Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Matthew 12:48 He replied to him, "Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?"

Matthew 12:49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are My mother and My brothers.

Matthew 12:50 For WHOEVER does the will of my Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

[DennisR]

Very-well said.

[RobbyS]

As I say, you don’t think that the Virgin birth much more significance than the birth of John of an elderly woman. Do you or do you not believe that Jesus is one of three equal persons in the Blessed Trinity? Answer this and then we can address the question of the brothers and sisters of the Lord.

As to the regard we have for Mary, it is this: she is the best of us, but she is not divine, and her son is her creator.