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To: BlueDragon; ConservativeMind
Would you accept that early patristic fathers employed the idea or principle?

I'm being held to the standard that it has to be shown from Scripture. Is it too much to bear that the same standard be applied to Sola Scriptura?

1,608 posted on 01/18/2012 3:03:06 AM PST by Al Hitan (Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.)
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To: Al Hitan; BlueDragon; ConservativeMind; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; ...
'm being held to the standard that it has to be shown from Scripture. Is it too much to bear that the same standard be applied to Sola Scriptura?

2 Timothy 3:14-17 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Now, from Scripture show us where tradition is to tradition is to be held to the same level of authority as the living, God breathed, inspired Word of God. Or that tradition IS God breathed, inspired, and living.

And tradition is not acceptable. Catholics reject what they call *self-declared* salvation. Well I reject self-declared tradition that says tradition is equal in authority to Scripture. How convenient is that for the Catholic church. *See, tradition is of equal authority to Scripture because our tradition says so*.

Really????

It's beyond absurd.

1,613 posted on 01/18/2012 8:09:28 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Al Hitan
Again I must point you towards the early fathers whom relied upon scripture as their guide. That was the earliest tradition, and one which served them, and all of us well.

Some other time perhaps, if it is a list of scripture speaking of the Word itself which you seek, it can be provided. But of what use would that be to yourself, if you are of the camp which elevates tradition to be not only on par with scripture, but above and beyond it when it comes to adding things and instituting practices which are not found in the Word, even in opposition and contradiction to it?

Perhaps some other time you might read what Berkouwer had to say at the link provided at the colored banner "Unshakable Authority". The discussion of identity is important, speaking much to the differences of approach towards scripture, and who we are, in relation to the Lord.

If one is able to digest that, it would help tone down the false argument that each child of the Reformation takes it upon their own selves to interpret scripture privately.

Interestingly enough, just the other day we had a sermon or teaching of sorts brought by a Catholic here to FR, from a Catholic source, which was all but indiscernible from preachings and teachings commonly found among other-than-Roman Catholic pastors. It seemed good teaching to myself, though admittedly I did not delve into it too deeply, for the concepts being discussed were familiar to me.

I thought to comment upon the completeness of the similarities but did not, as another made the point. The point being, that each teacher arrived a the same conclusions. Wondering upon that, I did look enough to see that the focus was upon an individual's more direct ongoing relationship with the Lord, and how to better that, rather than that relationship being entirely subsumed and taken custody of by submission to church hierarchy.

1,666 posted on 01/18/2012 12:14:56 PM PST by BlueDragon (on'a $10 horse an' a $40 saddle I'm going up the trail with them longhorn cattle c'm uh ty-yi-yipy-)
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