Posted on 12/28/2011 5:47:17 PM PST by rzman21
I’m a vocal Evangelical Christian and have never thought such a thing either, much less said anything against the Catholic church. I’m even allowed on Catholic caucus threads and am on the ping list.
I can defend my faith intellectually just fine but frankly I am getting sick of you personally labeling all of us like you do.
As a Protestant with a terminal degree in Theology from a Jesuit University, I would like to comment regarding your post.
You state, in defining various terms: "apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith."
You further state that "The person who leaves not just the Catholic Church but who abandons Christ Himself is materially an apostate." I would agree with the above statements.
However, IMHO your conclusion does not follow, viz. that a Catholic who becomes a Protestant is automatically an "apostate" according to Canon Law.
The day is long gone when every Protestant would have been well-schooled in the evils of the Church and the Protestant "corrections" to the supposed false doctrines. That way of thinking largely belongs to another age, when Protestants felt the obvious need to distinguish themselves as clearly as possible from the Church. After all, their raison d'etre was bound up in their ability to justify their leaving the Church.
However, having lived and taught in various Protestant denominations over a long career, I have not seen militant anti-Catholicism to any significant degree. I would guess that most Protestants have only a vague idea as to why they are Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc., and not Catholic.
Thus, most Protestants (save those who deliberately left and repudiated Catholocism) are not to any great extent actively opposed to the Church, and they clearly cannot be considered among those who have totally repudiated the Christian Faith - i.e., "apostates" according to your definition.
As stated in an earlier post, my hope and prayer would be that genuine Christians (those who hold to the fundamental doctrines of Christ) exercise a spirit of charity and of unity towards one another. We face a great enemy who seeks the destruction of all Christians, and we do the cause of Christ a disservice by failing to heed and obey His prayer for Christian unity as recorded in the Gospels.
I am certainly not suggesting that we should disregard any and all doctrinal differences, but I am suggesting that we conduct such discussions in a spirit of Charity and of "considering the other as greater than ourself."
Hey n00b, did you sign up in September 2011 to post divisive stuff?
>>Since when is getting people to think about why they believe what they do divisive?
Hey n00b, did you sign up in September 2011 to post divisive stuff?
>>Since when is getting people to think about why they believe what they do divisive?
I’m not so sure that is your motivation, n00b.
I don’t think Christian management is all that concerned about whether we’re Catholic or Protestant as long as we’re working toward the same goal.
>>That might be liberal Protestant teaching, but when it comes to Catholics leaving for Protestantism that’s a different story.
You do realize that Mormons specifically target Catholics because they are ‘easy marks’ for conversion to Mormonism and steal many more Catholic sheep than Evangelicals do.
Another point, Catholics are Christians, Mormons are not. There are huge theological differences that cannot be over come.
So before you go all kumbyah with the Mormons, think again.
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
There’s nothing in that passage that demands that people’s pastors must be imposed on them by church hierarchy. Only that when people submit themselves to a pastor, they obey his godly leadership.
Many people understandably argue that grown up men and women should be allowed to participate in the management of their congregation like grown-ups.
You wrote:
“If you hold the view that all ministers are scammers, I believe you are wrong.”
Your view is irrelevant. He admits he objectively scammed people. He might have done it unwittingly, but objectively he scammed people.
“However, now, he is your scammer!”
He’s not a scammer. He WAS a scammer. Now, he is not.
“As I wrote, I hope the RC church can do something very good with him now.”
With him? No, he has done good with the Church and the Church has given him some of what he lacked as a Protestant. Here’s his website: http://www.dads.org/
so true, so what is the point of his thread?
but the Mormon Church has been a fighter for family values for all Americans against gay rights, abortion, etc.
- - - - -
THAT IS NOT TRUE. And I can prove it with LDS sources. That is the image they put forth but they are not nearly anti-gay or pro-life as you think and certainly not as much as Evangelicals.
Please, try for consistency.
“He’s not a scammer. He WAS a scammer. Now, he is not.”
I can only hope so, but only time will tell whether his character has changed.
Nancy Pelosi is a self-excommunicated Catholic. Besides she’s a Marxist, not a liberal.
Either you except Christ,or you don’t. Why so complicated?
so true, so what is the point of his thread?
Near as I can tell from his posting history, he enjoys creating divisions among Christians and likes joining Satan as an accuser of the brethren. You will have to reach your own conclusion...
Is that so? Got a chapter and verse on that? We each have our own reality and what we consider the Truth. How many people believed Jesus was the Christ who came into this world to save humanity when He started His ministry? One. Jesus Himself. The Truth is the Truth whether one person believes it or a million. I believe the Bible to be the Truth? Am I wrong to believe that? When nothing else in this world makes sense, the Bible does. It is the written Word of God. It provides the basis for our prayers and knowledge of how best to please Him.
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
St. Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrneans 105 A.D.
I can read the Bible, who cares what others say?
Forgive me, vladimir, for I have sinned.
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