I don't engage in 'idolitry', whatever that is.
Posted on 12/28/2011 5:47:17 PM PST by rzman21
May the Lord bless you and keep you safe in the palm of His mighty hand.
Like a lot of Catholics I got really sickened by the handling of the sex-abuse scandals, particularly during John Paul II’s reign.
I even thought about becoming Eastern Orthodox, but my readings in the Church Fathers about the role of the Pope of Rome in the first millenium kept me from “Doxing” as some Byzantine Catholics call it.
Being an Eastern Christian in the Catholic Church is not an easy thing because most Roman Catholics I meet almost always question whether or not I’m a “real” Catholic.
But my confidence in the Chair of St. Peter in spite of the flaws of its occupants has kept me from leaving the Church.
We can only hope that God’s grace and mercy remains available to those who apostatize from the Catholic faith.
This post really has nothing to do with people who were born into Protestantism as I was, but it does have to do with the arrogance of Evangelicals who reject the Christian faith of their Catholic neighbors and target them for conversion.
For the most part, we don’t see Catholic missionaries running around targeting Protestants for conversion.
But the visceral reaction on the part of many of the Evangelical posters shows their anti-Catholic contempt for the Catholic Church’s teachings about its own members.
Reaganaut,
My theory is that this disruptor is a mormonic cultist whose intent here is to cause dissension among Christian brothers and take the focus off the false religion of mormonism.
... and you know who the “accuser of the brethren is”. This is a demonic helper of his, come to poke at sore spots within the true Body of Christ on Earth.
For the record, if anyone recognizes the Biblical Jesus Christ, Son of God, Eternal God as their Savior and has entrusted themself to the Gospel of Grace as the source of salvation, I consider them a brother in Christ, regardless of denomination. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Other.
“They will know you by your love for one another.”
Conversely, anyone who does not love other Christians is either not walking with Christ, or not one of His.
My attitude about the Papacy is not unlike that of many our military men and women.
They salute the rank and not neccessarily the person holding that rank.
The Evangelical attitude about ecclesiastical authority is “I will not serve.”
I wonder who first said that.
Unfortunately, the floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops. The Church is guilty of much. If it is of any help, the Divine Comedy is of great insight, particularly the Inferno.
Being an Eastern Christian in the Catholic Church is not an easy thing because most Roman Catholics I meet almost always question whether or not I’m a “real” Catholic.
A lot of them have no great grasp on what is a real Catholic. That, however, is thankfully changing.
But the visceral reaction on the part of many of the Evangelical posters shows their anti-Catholic contempt for the Catholic Church’s teachings about its own members.
When your very basis is about what you are not, versus what you are, why then, almost anything goes.
I like Milton's take on it.
Ecumenism with the Protestants has always been very one-sided since Vatican II.
The Catholics have moved closer to Protestantism, but the Protestants have remained hardened in their ways toward the Catholic Church.
We can’t water down our teachings about the Catholic Church being the visible Body of Christ to placate dissenters.
I think that’s what they want. It’s funny how they like trying to marginalize us by comparing us with a 19th century sect founded by a certain Joseph Smith.
Catholics have a lot more to worry about from Evangelical preachers seducing waivering or unwary Catholics than we do from the followers of Joseph Smith, unless you live in Utah.
My time in the Traditionalist Movement in the 1990s made me rather wary of this phony I’m OK you’re OK ecumenism that has only led to an exodus from the Catholic Church.
There has only been a trickle of Protestants like myself and a few other Catholic FReepers who have headed in the other direction.
This requires a qualified response.
On the international level, there is one pro-family Lds group that has indeed at times weighed in on these matters. (Of course, they've also widely distributed a statement that we can become gods)
On the national level, your statement is false. The Lds church has had absolutely NO structured campaign to either oppose abortion or the homosexual agenda.
Regionally, the Mormon church DID weigh in significantly with resources. These were two propositions on the ballot in CA (years 2008 and 2000). These indeed were propositions designed to protect marriage. But regional action done in one state out of 50 a grand total of two times doesn't make the Mormon church to be pro-family crusaders in the public square!
Besides, if you want to count regional action, 'twas the Mormon church getting behind gay rights in Salt Lake City (treating sexual orientation as minority class status for companies with 100 employees or more; as well as forcing those renting to sanction homosexuality) that was the catalyst in that being passed a few years ago.
The Mormon church is a hierarchical church. Believe me, if they weighed in formally on these matters, you would know it. (That's how we knew the CA ballot propositions).
They haven't. In fact, the Lds church has turned against conservatism on matters of illegal aliens.
Name me one formal pro-life issue -- some battle in the public square -- they have weighed in on...go ahead...I'm waiting. Instead, they've invited Harry Reid on the BYU campus to speak to all the students & profs!
They haven’t. In fact, the Lds church has turned against conservatism on matters of illegal aliens.
>>I’m a Catholic, so believe me when I hear stuff like this coming out of the bishops’ conference I cringe.
Human dignity is one thing, but obeying the law it quite another.
Ah. I see. You are God. Nice. How about waving some riches my way just to prove that you are not just another tent preaching sham?
Obviously then, you are saying that Jesus is NOT within you...And you mock those who claim they have the presence of Jesus...
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
So God hasn't revealed that mystery to you...And obviously, neither has your religion...I suspect because it hasn't been revealed to them, either...
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Apparently you are thinking otherwise, but according to own admission AND the testimony of scripture, you are not one of the sheep of the flock of Jesus...
What is it you think you are teaching people???
The Bible isn’t an auto manual.
Apostasy only applies to Catholics who become Protestants.
What about that don’t you understand? A Catholic who becomes a Protestant loses his/her salvation.
But Protestants who were never Catholics are “Separated Brethren”? They are somehow “saved” or “Christians” in a sense that former Catholics who become Protestants are not?
Hell will freeze over before I turn closer to your idolitry.
“Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the Popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen. ”
Martin Luther
My husband and I, then in our thirties, were looking into returning to our Catholic faith. We attended weekly Mass, and the Neumann Center religious classes. We did this for more than 3 months. Then we returned home for Christmas. After the Christmas mass, as we were driving back to our relative’s home, my husband and I looked at each and almost simultaneously said. “This isn't going to work. There is something seriously missing here.” Of course, we now have words to use for this. What was missing was the Spirit. What was missing was that God did not need us in the Catholic faith or want us to be there.
The following week I started looking at Protestant churches. I believe that we were led by the Spirit to the denomination to which we have been faithful members for 29 years. This is the church in which God wanted us to be. How we found it has a somewhat miraculous story behind it.
If one will sincerely ask God for direction, he will lead you to the Christian denomination in which He wants you to participate. Possibly that is the Catholic faith, but maybe not.
I don't engage in 'idolitry', whatever that is.
Duh - ‘idolitry’ is Yoda-speak for “I try Idol” - and frankly, I’m with they guy. I don’t want anything to do with that show either....
I see your “auto manual” and raise you a ‘jumbo shrimp’
Neither do I. He doesn't sing well and his songs are forgettable.
You do realize that Catholics are the primary target of Mormon missionaries and many more Catholics defect to Mormonism than Evangelicals. There are several reasons (like hierarchy and percentage of nominal believers) that Mormons target Catholics. When I was training to be a Mormon missionary, we were specifically told to seek out Catholics for conversion. I have never heard such a thing in my 20 years as an Evangelical.
So your statement is far from correct rzman.
Many Evangelicals accept Catholics as our brothers and sisters in Christ, whereas we do not accept Mormons as such.
Also, John Paul the II, put Mormons and protestants (incl Evangelicals) in separate categories - the first NOT being Christians and the second being Christians.
I can find the quote if you wish.
But Protestants who were never Catholics are “Separated Brethren”? They are somehow “saved” or “Christians” in a sense that former Catholics who become Protestants are not?
>>You don’t understand Catholic theology, and I don’t have time at the moment to go into detail.
The Catholic Church is the Visible Body of Christ, and for a Catholic to leave the Body of Christ equals apostasy.
Protestants who are validly baptized with a Trinitarian form belong to the Church in a mystical manner.
If you were born Protestant, you lack the same culpability for your state of schism and material heresy that a Catholic who leaves to become a Protestant does.
As St. Jerome, whom Protestants quote selectively, writes around 400 A.D.
“I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but Your Blessedness, that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails.”
Letter of Jerome to Pope Damasus, 374 A.D. 15,2 J1346
“Yet, though your greatness terrifies me, your kindness attracts me. From the priest I demand the safe-keeping of the victim, from the shepherd the protection due to the sheep. Away with all that is overweening; let the state of Roman majesty withdraw. My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the church is built! This is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. But since by reason of my sins I have betaken myself to this desert which lies between Syria and the uncivilized waste, I cannot, owing to the great distance between us, always ask of your sanctity the holy thing of the Lord. Consequently I here follow the Egyptian confessors who share your faith, and anchor my frail craft under the shadow of their great argosies. I know nothing of Vitalis; I reject Meletius; I have nothing to do with Paulinus. He that gathers not with you scatters; he that is not of Christ is of Antichrist.”
Letter of Jerome to Pope Damasus, 376 A.D., 2
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.