Pope highlights Mary's role as 'woman of the apocalypse'

Catholic News Agency ^ | 12/28/11 | Benjamin Mann

[RnMomof7]

Rome, Italy, Dec 8, 2011 / 04:28 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Benedict XVI reflected on the biblical description of a “woman clothed with the sun” in his remarks at Rome's Spanish Steps on the 2011 Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

“What is the meaning of this image? It represents the Church and Our Lady at the same time,” the Pope told the crowd assembled before the nearby statue commemorating the 1854 definition of Mary's Immaculate Conception. “Before all, the 'woman' of the apocalypse is Mary herself.”

The 12th chapter of the Biblical Apocalypse – also known as the Book of Revelation – describes the glorification and persecution of “a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.”

Though not named, this woman is described as the mother of the Messiah. In poetic language akin to the Bible's other prophetic books, Saint John says she faced the threat of “a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns,” and “fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God.”

Pope Benedict, offering white roses in his traditional yearly act of Marian veneration, gave listeners his insight into the connection between the Virgin Mary and the Church – portrayed in the Apocalypse through the single image of the sun-clad woman.

“She appears 'clothed in sunlight,' that is, clothed in God,” observed the Pope. “The Virgin Mary is in fact completely surrounded by the light of God and lives in God … The 'Immaculate One' reflects with all of her person the light of the 'sun' which is God.”

“Besides representing Our Lady, this sign personifies the Church, the Christian community of all times,” he continued.

The Church, he explained, is “pregnant, in the sense that she carries Christ” and “must give birth to him to the world.”

“This is the labor of the pilgrim Church on earth, that in the midst of the consolations of God and the persecutions of the world, she must bring Christ to men.”

Because the Church continues to bring Jesus into the world, Pope Benedict said, it “finds opposition in a ferocious adversary,” symbolized in scripture by the “dragon” that has “tried in vain to devour Jesus,” and now “directs his attacks against the woman – the Church – in the desert of the world.”

“But in every age the Church is supported by the light and the strength of God,” the Pope said. “She is nurtured in the desert with the bread of his word and the Holy Eucharist.”

“And in this way, in every tribulation, through all of the trials that she finds in the course of the ages and in the different parts of the world, the Church suffers persecution, but comes out the victor.”

Pope Benedict said the Church should not fear persecution, which is bound to arise, but will be defeated.

“The only pitfall of which the Church can and must be afraid is the sin of her members,” he warned, highlighting the key difference between the Church and the woman who is its prototype.

“While in fact Mary is immaculate – free from every stain of sin – the Church is holy, but at the same time marked by our sins.”

While sinless herself, Mary remains in solidarity with the Church struggling against sin.

“That is why the people of God, pilgrims in time, turn to their heavenly mother and ask for her help,” explained Pope Benedict.

He stressed the world's need for the hope brought by the “woman clothed with the sun” – “especially in this difficult moment for Italy, for Europe and for different parts of the world.”

“May Mary help us to see that there is a light beyond the veil of fog that appears to envelop reality,” he declared.

“For this also we, especially on this day, never cease to ask with filial trust for her help: 'O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to you.'”

[CynicalBear]

>> I was looking to understand more about Revelation 12 from the Catholic perspective.<<

Ah ha! That’s what I get for jumping in mid conversation huh! I’m sure you’re aware but keep in mind that the Catholic understanding is based on the church replacing Isreal.

[johngrace]

That's all you got Pseudo scripture and definition reading! There are two forms of Pray but you have been told along time ago but you persist.

So this Greek speaking people are overruled By greek lexicon reading person(You):

Here is definition:

pray (pr) v. prayed, pray·ing, prays

v.intr. 1. To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship.

2. To make a fervent request or entreaty.(Meaning to anyone)

v.tr. 1. To utter or say a prayer or prayers to; address by prayer.

2. To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech. Now often used elliptically for I pray you to introduce a request or entreaty: Pray be careful.

3. To make a devout or earnest request for: I pray your permission to speak.

4. To move or bring by prayer or entreaty.

[boatbums]

As far as needs, well, needs are needs. We need food, water, warmth to survive. I don't see any way out of that no matter how much in grace we grow.

I have a little to add to this conversation. I think that in this life we even have to learn to trust in God so totally that with ALL our needs - EVERYTHING - we learn to trust in Him to provide. We expect so much in this country and tend to forget how the early believers lived as well as how many still live across the world. We should be grateful when he does provide for our needs, but sometimes going without for a little while ALSO teaches us lessons of trust and faith. Like Paul, I know what it is like to abound and also to not have two nickels to rub together. I know what it's like to not eat for four days because I had no money and I know too well what it's like to eat too much. But in every thing we learn to trust God and to be content. Paul said that in whatever state he was, he learned to be content. In those times of need is when our faith is tested and, when tested, it grows stronger.

[narses]

I’m sure you’re aware but keep in mind that the Catholic understanding is based on the church replacing Isreal.

That comment from a poster who denigrates Easter and Christmas as PAGAN. If you need salt, I understand.

[CynicalBear]

Give it up Johngrace. You can try as you might but your Popes put your attempts at obfuscation to shame.

Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]

I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.

we cast ourselves into your arms

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)

confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)

O crystal fountain of faith

Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)

Lily of all holiness

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)

Conqueress of evil and death

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)

Convert the wicked

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)

Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help”

Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship. You can try all you want to claim that Catholics don’t pray to Mary but no one believes you outside of Catholics.

[CynicalBear]

Do you deny that Catholics believe that the church has replace Israel?

[RegulatorCountry]

I’ve known and loved family members who didn’t celebrate Christmas or Easter other than by going to church, narses. I understand it and am OK with it.

[RegulatorCountry]

Well, at the risk of coming across like some sort of Bible-totin’ Chauncey Gardiner, a graft does not take over the root. Cut off the graft and the root sprouts anew. Looking at the Church Age and that which follows, that makes sense and has scriptural support in the words themselves as well as the horticultural usage being used metaphorically.

[CynicalBear]

>> Cut off the graft and the root sprouts anew.<<

AKA Take the church out of the world and Israel sprouts anew.

[RegulatorCountry]

Yes, that’s where I was headed. “Cut off” might not have been the best choice of words, given the Biblical usage of same. “Remove” is better.

[johngrace]

ok!Mr Greek! You got it all nuanced figured out from that great insight you have. Same old misunderstanding and stereo types. What Church do we go to hear your most profound wisdom.

[johngrace]

Mister Literal! So I guess you are a one eyed and one armed believer because of these verses.

Matthew5:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Simplistic notions and stereo types. I hope you did not have to hop to the computer and then read with one eye when you typed.

[marbren]

Thank You Heavenly Father for revealing to me some neat insight about praying for needs through my FRiends and forgiving me for the spiritual pride I had.

Coming to Jesus with all my needs is so intimate! There are less walls between us. The contentment is growing for me.

I did do this in the past BTW with God playing Santa Clause. I would pray things like. Please let so and so approve of me and what I am saying and agree with me. I left this need behind. It is very liberating.

[marbren]

“and all these things will be added unto you”. Look it up.

Thank You Heavenly Father for posting this wisdom about seeking your kingdom first.

[metmom]

God desires communication with Him constantly.

I was talking with someone about how God used the hard times in our lives to push us (bring us) to Himself, and it occurred to me then we come to Him when we need Him but tend to not otherwise.

Then God showed me that that is essentially using God, using Him just to get out of difficulty and trials and then I go merrily along my way doing what I want.

Boy, was that ever convicting. He wants the kind of intimate relationship like a friend, someone who comes to Him ALL the time, just to BE with Him not to DO for Him or to have Him bail us out.

A relationship with Christ is all about BEING. It’s not about DOING. A robot can DO.

[mitch5501]

Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths

[caww]

I also think when God asks we rely on Him that's exactly what He means...there is nothing to great or least He is not ready to hear about.

When you have consistant communication with Him there are also some very humours moments shared. I recall my son saying to me that when I talk about God like He's standing right next to me....and I thought to myself...well He is.

He's the unseen guest at my table when it looks like I'm eating alone. He's the arm which escorts me into a crowded room when it looks like I'm unescorted. He's the ear I whisper into when I don't want others to see I'm afraid....and the list could go on and on and on.

When times are tough and you rely on Him so much then, these times establish a "Habit" of turning to Him...and there's great comfort and assurance for that.

[marbren]

That might be a fun thread! God’s sense of humor.
I remember a dream I was falling into the pit of hell. I was screaming Jesus Help Me! I felt His hand behind my back pushing me up out of the pit. I woke up and my 2 year old daughter at the time was kicking me in the back.

[caww]

LoL....oh that is funny! So much for dreams! Amazingly I f I dream I never remember them...except those drug induced from anesthetics...and those are generally nightmares.

That would be fun to have a thread about God's humor. I'm sure others have some stories they could tell where they laughed with God...or when He brought about a gotcha moment.

[CynicalBear]

>>Mister Literal! So I guess you are a one eyed and one armed believer because of these verses.<<

Why do you insist on going back under the law? Born again believers don’t live under the law but under grace. The flesh can’t please God. We are not debtors to the flesh but to the Spirit.

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Relying on some legal earthly act is law not grace and faith.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

It is not this body that has been cleansed and perfected. It’s our spiritual selves that have been. The body will be changed after we leave this world. Understanding that brings peace.