It's not "towing the line"! (Of which some here accuse your Church.) Nobody is having tow anything.
It's "toeing the line", for Brigham's sake!
Posted on 12/24/2011 8:59:19 AM PST by Saundra Duffy
During the time my family and I lived in Europe, we visited the Frederiksborg Castle in Denmark, where many of the Carl Bloch paintings of the Savior are displayed. The paintings are crowded into a small room, sometimes called the King’s Oratory. There is a glass partition on the floor in front of the altar.
As we viewed the paintings, our family members took turns explaining what was happening in each one. We progressed from the birth of the Lord through His temptation by the devil and His preaching and healing. When we got to the Crucifixion I said, “And this is when He died.”
The two youngest children insisted, “No, He’s alive.” I stooped down to ask them to use their quiet voices and to explain more about the Crucifixion. That’s when I saw what they were seeing. From their angle, we could see on the glass partition the reflection of one painting superimposed on another painting. One was the painting of the Lord on the cross, and the other was the painting of His Resurrection. In both paintings His arms are stretched out, in the one on the cross and in the other as He is leaving the tomb. When I first saw the paintings imposed one on the other, it startled me. In that moment the images seemed to match perfectly. It seemed as if I were looking at the Savior’s spirit leaving His body on the cross.
Upon closer inspection I discovered the illusion, then enjoyed looking at each painting separately—The Crucifixion and The Resurrection. But the memory of the two paintings superimposed is imprinted on my mind. In a single view, they encapsulated the Lord’s condescension and His transcendent glory. And in one moment, the reality of the Crucifixion and of the Resurrection was confirmed by the Spirit in my heart and soul.
This experience has come to my mind over the years when I have studied and pondered three aspects of the Lord’s condescension: the reality of His condescension, the breadth and totality of His condescension, and the continuing blessing of His condescension for us today.
The Reality of the Condescension The condescension of the Lord Jesus Christ generally refers to His leaving His high and holy station in heaven and coming to live as a man on earth to accomplish the Atonement and Resurrection. Jesus came to live where mankind lives and as mankind lives so He could raise mankind to live where the Father lives and as the Father lives. Because He descended to earth to lift us to heaven, each one of us can have the “perfect brightness of hope” (2 Nephi 31:20) of progressing into the kingdom and presence of God.
President John Taylor (1808–87) said of the condescension of Christ, “It was further necessary that He should descend below all things, in order that He might raise others above all things; for if He could not raise Himself and be exalted through those principles brought about by the atonement, He could not raise others; He could not do for others what He could not do for Himself.”1
Nephi’s vision may be the best scriptural summary of the Lord’s condescension, to the degree a summary is possible (see 1 Nephi 11:14–33). His description of the condescension includes the Redeemer’s coming to earth; His being baptized by John; the Holy Ghost descending upon Him; His going forth among the people with great power; their casting Him out from among them; His calling of twelve apostles; His providing for angels to come down from heaven to minister unto the children of men; His healing the sick and afflicted with all manner of diseases; His casting out of devils and unclean spirits; and His being judged by the people, lifted up upon a cross, and slain for the sins of the world.
The Lord’s coming to earth was essential to the Father’s plan. There had to be a Savior, a Redeemer, a Great Mediator. Jesus told the Father, “Send me” (Abraham 3:27) because He loved God our Eternal Father and because He loved us. He explained to the Nephites, “I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me” (3 Nephi 27:13).
The Breadth of the Condescension The wonder of the Lord’s condescension is most meaningful when we contemplate how far He descended. The irony of the Jews’ rejection of Him pierces more deeply when we contemplate who He had been for them before He came to earth.
For example, before the Lord Omnipotent came to earth, He was known as “the Creator of all things from the beginning” (Mosiah 3:8; Helaman 14:12). Contrast that with the Jews’ query, “Is not this the carpenter?” (Mark 6:3). The Creator of all things became a carpenter.
Similarly, consider the contrast between “Shepherd” and “Lamb.” In the Old Testament the Lord was called the “Shepherd of Israel” (Psalm 80:1). Isaiah described Him as the One who gathers His lambs with His arm (see Isaiah 40:11). In His earthly life, that lamb-gathering Shepherd became God’s Lamb, sacrificed for Israel and for the whole world (see John 1:36).
Consider this difference. Before Jesus came to earth He was called “the Father of heaven and earth” (Mosiah 3:8). On earth He was mistaken as “the son of Joseph” (John 6:42).
When the Israelites were finally ready to enter the promised land, it was Jehovah who stopped the River Jordan and made it stand in its place so His people could cross on dry ground (see Joshua 3). Contrast His power in performing that miracle with His humility when, as Jesus of Nazareth, He was immersed by John in the same River Jordan (see Matthew 3:13–17).
In ancient Israel, Jehovah spared thousands and thousands of firstborn sons on the night of the Passover (see Exodus 12). When He came to earth in the flesh, Jesus rasied from the dead the only son of a widow (see Luke 7:12–15).
The Lord saved thousands. The Lord saved one.
For those of us who live after the Savior’s life and suffering on earth, the hymn “Jesus, Once of Humble Birth” (no. 196) reminds us that Jesus came to earth in humble circumstances but will return one day in power and glory:
Jesus, once of humble birth, Now in glory comes to earth. But the Lord’s faithful followers who lived before His life on earth could have sung of His condescension with the same hymn, only reversing the order of the concepts in each couplet:
Once in glory o’er all the earth; Now He comes of humble birth. Once in heaven did He reign, Now He suffers grief and pain. Once, the Lord, the great I Am; Now a meek and lowly Lamb. Once His chariot was the cloud; Now upon the cross He bows. Once in glory He appeared; Now He groans in blood and tears. Once their King He was known; Now rejected by His own. Once exalted to a throne; Now forsaken, left alone. Once the great Anointed Heir; Now all things He meekly bears. 2 And each Christmas we sing in the last verse of “Silent Night”:
Jesus, Lord, at thy birth; Jesus, Lord, at thy birth. 3 But we would be correct, too, if we sang, “Jesus, Lord before Thy birth.” Long before.
Consider the Psalmist’s attempt to describe how far the Lord descended:
“The Lord is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
“Who is like unto the Lord our God, who dwelleth on high,
“Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!
“He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;
“That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people” (Psalm 113:4–8).
The Lord Omnipotent, who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, descends from His most lofty position to the very lowliest—raising the poor out of the dust and the needy out of the dunghill.
He descended below all, that all might be raised with Him and the Father.
The Lord Still Condescends to Lift Us Another aspect of the Lord’s condescension that helps us exercise faith in Him is this: His mercy, grace, loving-kindness, and long-suffering bless us today, tomorrow, and forever. Because He experienced the condescension of mortality, He knows how to bless and succor us. “Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted” (Hebrews 2:17–18; see also Alma 7:11–13).
Can we have faith enough in Him and in the inclusiveness of His love to believe He hears and answers and helps us, even us, in our lowly, dingy, feeble state? That He still reaches to those who are spiritually in-the-dust poor and spiritually dunghill-filthy?
The Lord continues to do for mankind the things He did during His earthly ministry that were part of His condescension. He, Himself—or by angels or authorized servants on earth—preaches the gospel, administers ordinances, performs miracles, and heals the afflictions of people today. He continues to be mindful of us. He is mindful of us as a people. But most miraculously He is still mindful of us individually. In some marvelous way, and though He is not physically present with each of us, He still feels the tug on the hem of His garment from a humble handmaiden in the midst of a multitude. He still hears the cry of the blind, perceives the longing of the sincere publican, calls common men to be His servants, tells the repentant sinner to go and sin no more. He still pleads our cause universally and individually before the Father. He still calls us by name and invites us to arise and come forth unto Him. He still condescends from His high and holy place to lift us.
The gift of His grace, His love, and His condescension blesses us all. Many of us have felt that divine strength and support in our lives. I have felt it many times, but perhaps none more so than in the following experience.
One day during my service as bishop, I felt burdened, even overwhelmed, by the troubles and trials of the ward members. It seemed that every single one was suffering. In every home there was some kind of pain, heartache, sorrow, or worry. I knelt to pray, but as the sum of all the troubles accumulated in my mind, I sank from an upright kneeling position to a position of being stooped over, all the way to the floor.
In my prayer I poured out my soul, saying things like this (names have been changed):“Father, Mary is expecting a baby out of wedlock. She is no more than a girl herself. What will she do? How can she do it?”
“And her mother,” I cried. “Mary’s mother is heartbroken and devastated. How will she go on?”
The name and face of another ward member came to mind. “What about Roger? He has multiple sclerosis. The doctors say he is going to die. What will his wife and sons ever do?”
“And in the Smiths’ home. Their son is so crippled. They have taken care of him night and day for 35 years. How can they go on?”
And there were others. In every case, the answer came clearly and powerfully that God was very aware of each individual. He knew the unwed teen. He knew her mother. He had a plan for the husband with multiple sclerosis and for his wife and sons. And for 35 years, night and day, the Lord had watched over the crippled son and his family.
As each person appeared in my mind, the undeniable witness came, in words too sacred to repeat, that the great plan of happiness and the Atonement were active and efficacious in each life. One by one the burdens of these brothers and sisters were lifted from my soul. The Holy Spirit imparted feelings of comfort and reassurance as if to say, “Bishop, let the Lord take these burdens. Rise up. Do the best you can. Things will work out for these people. You’ll be fine, too. Go be their bishop. The Lord will be their Savior.”
I discovered that I had returned to an upright kneeling position. Little by little the load had been lifted. I knew with a sure conviction that the Savior knew each person. His suffering and death thousands of years ago had atoned for them. But just as certain and much more immediate was the sure knowledge that He bore their present burdens. His love was complete, His power comprehensive, and His intercession current.
Conclusion May we remember the Lord—who He is, what He has done, and what He has promised to do. Before and after He was a baby in Bethlehem and a carpenter in Nazareth, He was and is the God of Israel and the God of the whole earth. He was and is the King of kings and Lord of lords. He is the Holy and Only Begotten Son of the Living God. He was with the Father from the beginning. He is in the Father and the Father in Him; and in Him has the Father glorified His name (see 3 Nephi 9:15). May we remember and believe that He has all wisdom and all power in heaven and in earth (see Mosiah 4:9). And may we have faith that He yet condescends to help and lift the least and the last, even you, even me.
I’ve read and re-read your account about how you turned away from the Mormon church and the process that you went through. I’m left with the feeling that you would have kept searching until you found the truth, reaganaut. Upon reflection I get the idea that it was a spiritual search, but also that you were using your reasoning mind. You were looking for Truth.
My husband and I watched “The Truth Project” this year. And it was really a long-involved set of DVD’s to watch and a lot of thought-provoking discussion followed because God’s Truth is so large and yet, so simple.
As Christians, we rely on Truth. And Christianity is a logical faith. The truth that God has shown to the world logically is threaded throughout the Bible. The revelation through prophecy of the coming of the Messiah speaks to this.
But also, our very need for a connection to Him speaks to this Truth. He occupies our rational minds and makes sense to us.
He doesn’t leave us hanging with lots of quirky and irrational things hanging out there in the darkness that we just have to accept blindly.
We have proof that Jesus was born to a virgin.
We have proof that He lived.
We have proof that He died on the cross.
We have proof that He was resurrected. And the entire purpose of His life... and ours become clear once we accept the resurrection.
We have a rational, logical and loving God who treats us with respect and wants us to know Him. He doesn’t hide from us. He came here so we would know Him on a more intimate level. And believers have the Holy Spirit so that we would never be separated from our loving God.
It’s truly like Mormonism has rejected the power of Holy Spirit and said that only they and their priesthood can save mankind. How blasphemous that seems!
What you left behind was confusion, mistrust and falsehood.
What you found was truth and freedom.
And I’m thankful, to call you a sister in Christ.
Let me take you back; to a time long ago.
Dig deep into your memory while you relax.
Think...
think...
think...
think...
Now that you are rested; can you remember whether you ACCEPTED or REJECTED the words of your old leaders about Christians and Christianity???
You did have to, PF; as their own LEADER has done the hard work alREADY!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
But SAndy will just brush it away with a mere flick of her wrist while exclaiming all the while...
"It mattereth not...
It mattereth not...
It mattereth not...
You TWIT!!
Only the threads that YOU have started can you have zapped when they don't go your way.
REMEMBER?
Have you been contacted by the church since you left, have they bothered you?
— - - - - - -
That is a shortened version, LOL. I’m really trying to get my testimony shorter.
I was contacted several times, when I was trying to resign my LDS membership, they kept creating delays, after I resigned I found out that they didn’t process it when they asked for my contact info. We went back and forth, even having meetings and eventually I contacted my attorney. They tried ‘love bombing’ me when I first left, and one time the ‘visiting teachers’ showed up and my mother was cleaning her shotgun, they didn’t come back but others did. Harassment is common for those who leave the LDS church.
Then a few years ago, when we lived in San Diego, I mentioned to the LDS Missionaries that I was an ex-Mormon and the kept harassing me insisting that I was still a member (even though I had moved since I left, married and didn’t give them my last name).
So; who won it?
Now that you are rested; can you remember whether you ACCEPTED or REJECTED the words of your old leaders about Christians and Christianity???
- - - - -
At the time, I accepted them whole-heartedly. Mormonism was the ‘only true church’ all others were the whore of Babylon.
OUCH!!!!!
I thought this thread was pulled.
OUCH, again!!
Hey Sandy - you never have answered whether you ACCEPT or REJECT those statements made by wonderful MORMON leaders about Christians.
Why not do it now?
Probably; but don't wait for answers coming from the MORMON side.
He'll GLADLY take you in!
It's not "towing the line"! (Of which some here accuse your Church.) Nobody is having tow anything.
It's "toeing the line", for Brigham's sake!
Resty; why don't you SEARCH your soul to see if you ACCEPT or REJECT the 'kind' words your LEADERS have said about CHRISTIANS over the years to see if you are going to CLAIM those words or REJECT them.
Would you get back to us when you have an answer?
We'd LOVE to know!
Resty; many of us here are praying that someday we can say about you: "The devil has left her..."
Oh?
And yet you cling to MORMONism.
Methinks He mattereth not.
You are the one who is telling lies about my Church and my Faith.
Poor Sandy!
Typing things like this KNOWING that I am going to post FACTS like this!!!
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
Thank you, Sister.
I put my Christian faith to the same tests I put my Mormon religion to and Christianity held up when Mormonism didn’t. You are right, God gives us logical/reasonable proofs for Christianity, and there just aren’t those proofs in Mormonism. God doesn’t expect us to follow blindly, but Mormonism does.
"And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was.
I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.”
I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Just because you ignore a question, doesn’t make it go away.
You're a MORMON. This should NOT be a alien concept to you!
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