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The Condescension of Jesus Christ
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ^ | December 2011 | David L. Frischknecht

Posted on 12/24/2011 8:59:19 AM PST by Saundra Duffy

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To: reaganaut

I’ve read and re-read your account about how you turned away from the Mormon church and the process that you went through. I’m left with the feeling that you would have kept searching until you found the truth, reaganaut. Upon reflection I get the idea that it was a spiritual search, but also that you were using your reasoning mind. You were looking for Truth.

My husband and I watched “The Truth Project” this year. And it was really a long-involved set of DVD’s to watch and a lot of thought-provoking discussion followed because God’s Truth is so large and yet, so simple.

As Christians, we rely on Truth. And Christianity is a logical faith. The truth that God has shown to the world logically is threaded throughout the Bible. The revelation through prophecy of the coming of the Messiah speaks to this.

But also, our very need for a connection to Him speaks to this Truth. He occupies our rational minds and makes sense to us.

He doesn’t leave us hanging with lots of quirky and irrational things hanging out there in the darkness that we just have to accept blindly.

We have proof that Jesus was born to a virgin.

We have proof that He lived.

We have proof that He died on the cross.

We have proof that He was resurrected. And the entire purpose of His life... and ours become clear once we accept the resurrection.

We have a rational, logical and loving God who treats us with respect and wants us to know Him. He doesn’t hide from us. He came here so we would know Him on a more intimate level. And believers have the Holy Spirit so that we would never be separated from our loving God.

It’s truly like Mormonism has rejected the power of Holy Spirit and said that only they and their priesthood can save mankind. How blasphemous that seems!

What you left behind was confusion, mistrust and falsehood.

What you found was truth and freedom.

And I’m thankful, to call you a sister in Christ.


101 posted on 12/26/2011 12:46:35 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: reaganaut
However, I got frustrated by how other LDS couldn’t or wouldn’t defend their faith, which is why I set out to be a Mormon apologist.

Let me take you back; to a time long ago.

Dig deep into your memory while you relax.

Think...

think...

think...

think...

Now that you are rested; can you remember whether you ACCEPTED or REJECTED the words of your old leaders about Christians and Christianity???

102 posted on 12/26/2011 12:47:44 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: pennyfarmer
Saundra, I have never damned anyone to hell nor have I called the LDS a cult but did you really post this?

You did have to, PF; as their own LEADER has done the hard work alREADY!


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)


But SAndy will just brush it away with a mere flick of her wrist while exclaiming all the while...

"It mattereth not...

It mattereth not...

It mattereth not...

103 posted on 12/26/2011 12:51:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I ask you sincerely to delete this entire thread where the anti Mormon dog pile has destroyed any hope of fair and free speech?

You TWIT!!

Only the threads that YOU have started can you have zapped when they don't go your way.

REMEMBER?

104 posted on 12/26/2011 12:55:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dragonblustar

Have you been contacted by the church since you left, have they bothered you?

— - - - - - -
That is a shortened version, LOL. I’m really trying to get my testimony shorter.

I was contacted several times, when I was trying to resign my LDS membership, they kept creating delays, after I resigned I found out that they didn’t process it when they asked for my contact info. We went back and forth, even having meetings and eventually I contacted my attorney. They tried ‘love bombing’ me when I first left, and one time the ‘visiting teachers’ showed up and my mother was cleaning her shotgun, they didn’t come back but others did. Harassment is common for those who leave the LDS church.

Then a few years ago, when we lived in San Diego, I mentioned to the LDS Missionaries that I was an ex-Mormon and the kept harassing me insisting that I was still a member (even though I had moved since I left, married and didn’t give them my last name).


105 posted on 12/26/2011 12:55:58 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Yesterday my husband and I had a stipid squabble.

So; who won it?

106 posted on 12/26/2011 12:58:32 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; Saundra Duffy

Now that you are rested; can you remember whether you ACCEPTED or REJECTED the words of your old leaders about Christians and Christianity???

- - - - -
At the time, I accepted them whole-heartedly. Mormonism was the ‘only true church’ all others were the whore of Babylon.


107 posted on 12/26/2011 12:59:17 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy
The "no antagonism" guideline applies to "ecumenical" threads NOT "caucus" threads.

OUCH!!!!!

I thought this thread was pulled.

108 posted on 12/26/2011 1:02:38 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
It was later restored without the caucus label.

OUCH, again!!

Hey Sandy - you never have answered whether you ACCEPT or REJECT those statements made by wonderful MORMON leaders about Christians.

Why not do it now?

109 posted on 12/26/2011 1:04:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: csense
..but can anybody explain to me why such an insulting word is being used here?

Probably; but don't wait for answers coming from the MORMON side.

110 posted on 12/26/2011 1:05:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: restornu
Go on over to Greg's site - SPAM.

He'll GLADLY take you in!

111 posted on 12/26/2011 1:06:58 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Here's your line of defense, courtesy of Grammar Police:

It's not "towing the line"! (Of which some here accuse your Church.) Nobody is having tow anything.

It's "toeing the line", for Brigham's sake!


112 posted on 12/26/2011 1:07:33 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: restornu
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Resty; why don't you SEARCH your soul to see if you ACCEPT or REJECT the 'kind' words your LEADERS have said about CHRISTIANS over the years to see if you are going to CLAIM those words or REJECT them.

Would you get back to us when you have an answer?

We'd LOVE to know!

113 posted on 12/26/2011 1:09:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: restornu
Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Resty; many of us here are praying that someday we can say about you: "The devil has left her..."

114 posted on 12/26/2011 1:10:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
He is everything to me.

Oh?

And yet you cling to MORMONism.

Methinks He mattereth not.

115 posted on 12/26/2011 1:12:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Jesus Christ is the Head of my Church and I love Him.

You are the one who is telling lies about my Church and my Faith.

Poor Sandy!

Typing things like this KNOWING that I am going to post FACTS like this!!!




In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

116 posted on 12/26/2011 1:13:42 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Thank you, Sister.

I put my Christian faith to the same tests I put my Mormon religion to and Christianity held up when Mormonism didn’t. You are right, God gives us logical/reasonable proofs for Christianity, and there just aren’t those proofs in Mormonism. God doesn’t expect us to follow blindly, but Mormonism does.


117 posted on 12/26/2011 1:14:56 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Just because you make a statement doesn’t make it true.

"And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was.
I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.”
I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

118 posted on 12/26/2011 1:16:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Just because you make a statement doesn’t make it true.

Just because you ignore a question, doesn’t make it go away.

119 posted on 12/26/2011 1:17:06 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Saundra Duffy
You can explain it away with some strange verbiage that makes no sense

You're a MORMON. This should NOT be a alien concept to you!

120 posted on 12/26/2011 1:18:31 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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