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To: Cronos
so Paul is saying not to follow the Torah's teaching on circumcision, hence your statement is incorrect

Acts 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

1st of all, one can not get the contet of what a letter is about by starting in middle or the closing of a letter. So what does Paul say at the opening of these 2 letters you cite.

1Cor 1:4 I thank my Elohim always concerning you for the favour of Elohim which was given to you by Messiah 9 Elohim is trustworthy, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Yeshua Messiah 10 And I appeal to you, brothers, by the Name of Yeshua Messiah, that you all agree, and that there be no divisions among you 13 Has the Messiah been divided? 14 I thank Elohim that I immersed not one of you except Crispus and Gaios, 15 that no one should say that I immersed into my own name 18 For the word of the stake is indeed foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of Elohim

Division amongst the ranks because of the house of Shammai that was going around and telling the new believers in Messiah that they had to be circumcised in the flesh before they could enter back into covenant and be saved from ther penalty of sin which is death.

1Co 3:1 And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual ones but as to fleshly, as to babes in Messiah. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food, for until now you were not able to receive it 9 For we are fellow workers of Elohim, you are the field of Elohim, the building of Elohim 16 Do you not know that you are a Dwelling Place of Elohim and that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you 23 And you belong to Messiah, and Messiah belongs to Elohim 1Co 4:1 Let a man regard us as servants of Messiah and trustees of the secrets of Elohim

2Cor 3:4 And such trust we have toward Elohim, through the Messiah ... 13 and not like Mosheh, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel should not look steadily at the end of what was passing away ... But their minds were hardened, for to this day, when the old covenant is being read, that same veil remains, not lifted, because in Messiah it is taken away. But to this day, when Mosheh is being read, a veil lies on their heart. And when one turns to the Master, the veil is taken away.

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or Elohim? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I should not be a servant of Messiah. 11 And I make known to you, brothers, that the Good News announced by me is not according to man 15 But when it pleased Elohim, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me by His favour, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might bring Him, the Good News, to the gentiles Gal 2:4 But as for the false brothers, sneakingly brought in, who sneaked in to spy out our freedom which we have in Messiah Yeshua in order to enslave us Gal 3:11 And that no one is declared right by Torah before Elohim is clear, for “The righteous shall live by belief.” 12 And the Torah is not of belief, but “The man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah, having become a curse for us 14 in order that the blessing of Aḇraham might come upon the nations in Messiah Yeshua

And what is the curse? It is the penalty of death due for sin. For if Torah taught by Messiah Yeshua is gone, then what defines sin?

Gal 3:16 But the promises were spoken to Aḇraham, and to his Seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Messiah. 17 Now this I say, Torah, that came four hundred and thirty years later, does not annul a covenant previously confirmed by Elohim in Messiah, so as to do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is by Torah, it is no longer by promise, but Elohim gave it to Aḇraham through a promise. 19 Why, then, the Torah? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom the promise was made. And it was ordained through messengers in the hand of a mediator. 20 The Mediator, however, is not of one, but Elohim is one. 21 Is the Torah then against the promises of Elohim? Let it not be! For if a law had been given that was able to make alive, truly righteousness would have been by Torah Gal 4:9 But now after you have known Elohim, or rather are known by Elohim, how do you turn again to the weak and poor elementary matters, to which you wish to be enslaved again?

Circumcision of the heart is of no value if Torah is gone because that would mean the promise of Abraham of also null and void. Vainly the Judaizers preached works of the flesh, but YHVH has always sought works of the heart. The law is still the same, it is the instrument in which it is followed that makes it either a blessing or a curse. Also according to these Words of Paul, it is not Messiah who resides in our hearts, it is Elohim and thus it is Elohim's Torah which He has written on our hearts. Not some new covenant that Christendom teaches Yeshua Messiah brought.

When Messiah Yeshua spoke that he came to 'fulfill' it is the same word he used in Mt 3:15 when he said, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Thus when religious doctrine claims that Torah is done away with, in the statement, that doctrine is also claiming that righteousness is done away with. Which as one can clearly see in Galatians, Paul once again rejected any notion that Torah was done away with.

So it is your statement that is incorrect.

190 posted on 12/25/2011 9:14:48 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
Do not read in snippets -- Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin. as well as
21. But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets -- Paul talks of ripping the Torah's laws such as circumcision, so hence your statement above about Paul teaching the Torah is wrong.
194 posted on 12/25/2011 10:17:23 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca and Medina now..)
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