Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]

Mormon Curtain.com ^ | Feb. 10, 2005

[Colofornian]

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" Apostle George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142

"Whosoever... does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist...," Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176

[There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true." Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91

"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation," Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again." Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor” Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 88

"It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus. Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk." Brigham Young, History of the Church, Vol. 7, p.40-41

[daniel1212]

It wasn’t your fault but the page you took it from. Quick fix though, thank God.

[Cvengr]

Outstanding post.

[Elsie]

God knows alcohol sometimes works.

Ya THINK??

---

1 Timothy 5:23 (kjv)
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

[Elsie]

(reference to the Anthon Transcript?)

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story. No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

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What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[daniel1212]

Actually, i was not following the thread and do not understand the issue, but disagree with the “character” of Smith.

[Elsie]

As regards hindering Bible reading:

Whether religion or politics or whatever; if SOMEone tells you NOT to read, or see or listen to someone or something; you can pretty well bet that they want to CONTROL you in some way.

[Elsie]

As regards unity you may want to see:

I'm a MORMON ...

 

 

 

http://www.affirmation.org/

[Elsie]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2010/05/patrick-madrid-is-evil.html

The way you can tell is that, while serving the Church, he actually wants to feed his family too. Anybody who tries to do something for the Church and seeks to get remuneration for the fruits of their labor is just a huckster. This is one of the more common memes one hears from the Truly True spectrum of Reactionary Catholicism. And one of its most ardent proponents is self-declared Expert on the Problem of Protestant Converts, Janice Kraus. Madrid isn’t a convert, of course. But he helps make converts and he is dangerously open to the idea that converts–especially Evangelical converts–are a good thing, if you please, and not the plague and scourge that Kraus believes them to be. Because of that, there is only one rational conclusion: he’s given his life to Catholic evangelization for no other purpose than filthy lucre. Indeed, Janice declares Madrid guilty of nothing less than simony.

Yeah...

This is what we get from MORMON, Inc. as well.

Right Sandy??

[Elsie]

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2009/12/special-pleading-of-sola-ecclesia-ists.html

A favored argument against Sola Scriptura frequently used by our friends in the Roman Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church is "Just look at Protestantism! It's a mess, of 22,000 25,000 30,000 33,000 58 gazillion denominations!"

Yeah; we get this from MORMON, Inc. as well.

Right Sandy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

[Elsie]

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/07/vicious-circle.html

Roman Catholics will tell us that we need to consult the Magisterium in order to know what Scripture is, to understand it and to settle the various debates over its meaning and interpretation. But when we ask them why we should believe the Magisterium has the authority to establish the canon and produce the correct interpretations of Scripture, we are often treated to a series of Scriptural proofs, which presuppose the Scriptures are clear and authoritative.

Dang!

I'm beginning to think that MORMONism is re-packaged Catholicism!

Right Sandy!!?

[Elsie]

It makes a thinking person wonder.

 

Indeed it does...

 

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2011/12/dome-of-rock-inscriptions-why-no.html

 

Right Sandy?

 

Oh..
Wait...
nevermind......

[Elsie]

[MarkBsnr]

I'm beginning to think that MORMONism is re-packaged Catholicism!

'Tis the season for a little antiCatholicism...

[daniel1212]

The issue is the supremacy of Scripture versus the Church being the supreme authority (sola ecclesia). The former does not claim assured infallibility (though it must allow that one and even Rome can speak infallible Scriptural truths, which even affirming there is a Creator can be considered), but seeks to persuade others by “manifestation of the truth,” (2Cor. 4:2) and depends upon conformity to Scripture Scriptural attestation, as did the apostles.

This method presumes that their magisterium is assuredly infallible and equal in authority to Scripture, which is a mark of cults like the LDS, but in Romanism it is more formalized, by which she declares that she alone is the OTC© (and then cries victim when challenged).

While determining which of the potentially hundreds of infallible interpretations really are such requires interpretation, the assurance that such is infallible does not rest upon the weight of Scriptural support, nor does the claimed charism of infallibility necessarily render the arguments or reasoning behind them to be infallible, but they are held as infallible when in conformity with Rome’s infallibly defined formula.

That is, Rome has infallibly defined herself to be infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined subject and scope-based formula, thereby rendering her declaration that she is infallible to be infallible, as well as whatever conforms to this criteria.

Thus we have statements like this:

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine...

I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness. Its past is present with it, for both are one to a mind which is immutable. Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves. — Most Rev. Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Lord Archbishop of Westminster, The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228. archive.org/stream/a592004400mannuoft/a592004400mannuoft_djvu.txt

[Elsie]

Is there a bag limit?