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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; smvoice; HossB86; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww
>>LOL, we hear this “outward affirmation” of what has happened already story, but where do the Scriptures say this?<<

Well, let’s start here. What did Paul & Silas tell the jailor?

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That’s the simple gospel of Jesus Christ. They didn’t add anything on as the requirement. No legal add-ons acts by man to earn or justify ones salvation. Scripture is very clear about not requiring anything other than faith for salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

If faith only is required for justification, sanctification, righteousness, and being “perfected forever” are you going to say that all those statements are wrong, in error, or just lies or half truths?

John tells us that if we confess our sins Jesus is faithful to forgive our sins.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There are at least 42 passages in scripture where we are told that faith alone is needed for the forgiveness of sins and salvation.

In Acts 10 Peter says this.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

No mention of baptism as a requirement. Again in Ephesians 2.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Water baptism is something that man does to please God or a “work” if you will.

In Titus 3 we are told it’s not “works of righteousness” that saves.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

No one can deny that baptism would be considered a “work of righteousness” or “something we have done”. To try to claim that baptism is what “washes away sins” or “is required for salvation” is to deny much of the rest of scripture.

Even to claim it’s a requirement or “law” for salvation would be to deny scripture.

Romans 3:28—“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.”

2,334 posted on 12/03/2011 5:36:06 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

*****There are at least 42 passages in scripture where we are told that faith alone is needed for the forgiveness of sins and salvation.*****

Well, you are half right.

Scripture does indeed say that faith is needed for the forgiveness of sins and salvation.

It does not however, say that faith ALONE is needed.

Do not add to Scripture.


2,337 posted on 12/03/2011 6:15:22 PM PST by Jvette
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To: CynicalBear

Amen


2,342 posted on 12/03/2011 6:45:09 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: CynicalBear
Don't twist scripture. The deeds of the law St. Paul refers to are the 613 Levitical commandments that Jesus abrogated on the cross. They have NOTHING to do with the sacraments that Christ himself instituted and commanded us to perform. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," Haydock Ver. 5. Abraham, before his vocation, was an idolater, according to Josephus; (Jewish Antiquities, lib. i. chap. viii.) according to some of the Rabbins, and as the Scripture itself seems to insinuate, Josue chap. xxiv; Isaias xliii; Wisdom x; Judith v. He did not then merit his vocation to the faith by his works. But when God had called him, and made him depart from his country, when he promised to him an innumerable posterity, Abraham believed in his promises, and it was reputed to him unto justice, that his faith and his justice were the pure gift of God. His faith was not a dead and speculative faith only, but an active faith, a faith animated by charity, as appears from the sequel of his life. (Calmet) Chrysostom Ver. 5. To him that believes in Him that justifies the ungodly. For reflect how great a thing it is to be persuaded and have full confidence that God is able on a sudden not to free a man who has lived in impiety from punishment only, but even to make him just, and to count him worthy of those immortal honors. Do not then suppose that this one is lowered in that it is not reckoned unto the former of grace. For this is the very thing that makes the believer glorious; the fact of his enjoying so great grace, of his displaying so great faith. And note too that the recompense is greater. For to the former a reward is given, to the latter righteousness. Now righteousness is much greater than a reward. For righteousness is a recompense which most fully comprehends several rewards. Therefore after proving this from Abraham, he introduces David also as giving his suffrage in favor of the statement made. What then does David say? And whom does he pronounce blessed? Is it him that triumphs in works, or him that has enjoyed grace? Him that has obtained pardon and a gift? And when I speak of blessedness, I mean the chiefest of all good things; for as righteousness is greater than a reward, so is blessedness greater than righteousness. Having then shown that the righteousness is better, not owing to Abraham's having received it only but also from reasonings (for he has whereof to boast, he says, before God ); he again uses another mode of showing that it is more dignified, by bringing David in to give his suffrage this way. For he also, he says, pronounces him blessed who is so made righteous, saying, Romans 3:28 Haydock Ver. 20. &c. To the end of this chapter, the apostle shews that the Jews cannot be truly justified, and sanctified by the works of the written law of Moses only; that a knowledge of sin, or of what is sinful, came by the law, but if they did not comply with the precepts of the law, this knowledge made them more guilty. Now, at the coming of Christ, the justice of God, that is, the justice by which he made others just, and justified them, cannot be had without faith in Christ, and by the grace of our Redeemer Jesus Christ, whom God hath proposed to all, both Gentiles and Jews, as a sacrifice of[3] propitiation for the sins of all mankind, by faith in his blood; that is, by believing in him, who shed his blood and died for us on the cross. It is he alone, (ver. 26.) that is the just one, and the justifier of all. And as to this, there is no distinction. The Gentiles are justified and sanctified without the written law, and the Jews who have been under the law, cannot partake of the justice of God, that is, cannot be justified, sanctified, or saved, but by the faith and grace of Christ Jesus. St. Paul does not pretend that the virtue of faith alone will justify and save a man; nothing can be more opposite to the doctrine of the gospel, and of the apostles in many places, as hath been observed, and will be shewn hereafter. He tells us in this chapter (ver. 20. and 28.) that man is justified without the works of the written law: and he teaches us, that no works of the law of Moses, nor any works that a man does by the law of nature, are sufficient to justify a man, and save him of themselves, that is, unless they be joined with faith, and the grace of God. And when he seems to say, that men are justified or saved by faith, or by believing, as he says of Abraham in the next chapter, (ver. 3. and 5.) he never says (as some both ancient and later heretics have pretended) that faith alone is sufficient. And besides by faith, he understands the Christian faith and doctrine of Christ, as opposite to the law of Moses, to circumcision, and the ceremonies of that law, as it evidently appears by the design of the apostle, both in this epistle and in that to the Galatians. He teaches us in this epistle (chap. ii. 6.) that God will judge every man according to his works: (chap. ii. 13.) that "not the hearers of the law," but the doers, shall be justified. See also chap. vi. He tells the Galatians (chap. v. ver. 6.) that the faith, by which they must be saved, must be a faith working by charity. He also tells the Corinthians (1 Corinthians vii. 19.) that circumcision is nothing, nor uncircumcision, but the keeping of the commandments of God. That though a man should have a faith, that so he could remove mountains, it would avail him nothing without charity. How often does he tell us that they who commit such and such sins, shall not inherit or possess the kingdom of God? Does not St. James tell us, that faith without good works is dead? See chap. ii. Of this more hereafter. (Witham)

St.John Chyrsostom comments showing that St. Paul is referring to the possibility of salvation for the Gentiles who don't keep the kosher laws. Ver. 28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the Law. When he had shown that by faith they were superior to the Jews, then he goes on with great confidence to discourse upon it also, and what seemed therein to annoy he again heals up. For these two things were what confused the Jews; one, if it were possible for men, who with works were not saved, to be saved without them, and another, if it were just for the uncircumcised to enjoy the same blessings with those, who had during so long a period been nurtured in the Law; which last confused them more by far than the former. And on this ground having proved the former, he goes on to the other next, which perplexed the Jews so far, that they even complained on account of this position against Peter after they believed. What does he say then? Therefore we conclude, that by faith a man is justified. He does not say, a Jew, or one under the Law, but after leading forth his discourse into a large room, and opening the doors of faith to the world, he says a man, the name common to our race. And then having taken occasion from this, he meets an objection not set down. For since it was likely that the Jews, upon hearing that faith justifies every man, would take it ill and feel offended, he goes on,
2,377 posted on 12/03/2011 7:30:35 PM PST by rzman21
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To: CynicalBear
Don't twist scripture. The deeds of the law St. Paul refers to are the 613 Levitical commandments that Jesus abrogated on the cross. They have NOTHING to do with the sacraments that Christ himself instituted and commanded us to perform. Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," Haydock Ver. 5. Abraham, before his vocation, was an idolater, according to Josephus; (Jewish Antiquities, lib. i. chap. viii.) according to some of the Rabbins, and as the Scripture itself seems to insinuate, Josue chap. xxiv; Isaias xliii; Wisdom x; Judith v. He did not then merit his vocation to the faith by his works. But when God had called him, and made him depart from his country, when he promised to him an innumerable posterity, Abraham believed in his promises, and it was reputed to him unto justice, that his faith and his justice were the pure gift of God. His faith was not a dead and speculative faith only, but an active faith, a faith animated by charity, as appears from the sequel of his life. (Calmet) Chrysostom Ver. 5. To him that believes in Him that justifies the ungodly. For reflect how great a thing it is to be persuaded and have full confidence that God is able on a sudden not to free a man who has lived in impiety from punishment only, but even to make him just, and to count him worthy of those immortal honors. Do not then suppose that this one is lowered in that it is not reckoned unto the former of grace. For this is the very thing that makes the believer glorious; the fact of his enjoying so great grace, of his displaying so great faith. And note too that the recompense is greater. For to the former a reward is given, to the latter righteousness. Now righteousness is much greater than a reward. For righteousness is a recompense which most fully comprehends several rewards. Therefore after proving this from Abraham, he introduces David also as giving his suffrage in favor of the statement made. What then does David say? And whom does he pronounce blessed? Is it him that triumphs in works, or him that has enjoyed grace? Him that has obtained pardon and a gift? And when I speak of blessedness, I mean the chiefest of all good things; for as righteousness is greater than a reward, so is blessedness greater than righteousness. Having then shown that the righteousness is better, not owing to Abraham's having received it only but also from reasonings (for he has whereof to boast, he says, before God ); he again uses another mode of showing that it is more dignified, by bringing David in to give his suffrage this way. For he also, he says, pronounces him blessed who is so made righteous, saying, Romans 3:28 Haydock Ver. 20. &c. To the end of this chapter, the apostle shews that the Jews cannot be truly justified, and sanctified by the works of the written law of Moses only; that a knowledge of sin, or of what is sinful, came by the law, but if they did not comply with the precepts of the law, this knowledge made them more guilty. Now, at the coming of Christ, the justice of God, that is, the justice by which he made others just, and justified them, cannot be had without faith in Christ, and by the grace of our Redeemer Jesus Christ, whom God hath proposed to all, both Gentiles and Jews, as a sacrifice of[3] propitiation for the sins of all mankind, by faith in his blood; that is, by believing in him, who shed his blood and died for us on the cross. It is he alone, (ver. 26.) that is the just one, and the justifier of all. And as to this, there is no distinction. The Gentiles are justified and sanctified without the written law, and the Jews who have been under the law, cannot partake of the justice of God, that is, cannot be justified, sanctified, or saved, but by the faith and grace of Christ Jesus. St. Paul does not pretend that the virtue of faith alone will justify and save a man; nothing can be more opposite to the doctrine of the gospel, and of the apostles in many places, as hath been observed, and will be shewn hereafter. He tells us in this chapter (ver. 20. and 28.) that man is justified without the works of the written law: and he teaches us, that no works of the law of Moses, nor any works that a man does by the law of nature, are sufficient to justify a man, and save him of themselves, that is, unless they be joined with faith, and the grace of God. And when he seems to say, that men are justified or saved by faith, or by believing, as he says of Abraham in the next chapter, (ver. 3. and 5.) he never says (as some both ancient and later heretics have pretended) that faith alone is sufficient. And besides by faith, he understands the Christian faith and doctrine of Christ, as opposite to the law of Moses, to circumcision, and the ceremonies of that law, as it evidently appears by the design of the apostle, both in this epistle and in that to the Galatians. He teaches us in this epistle (chap. ii. 6.) that God will judge every man according to his works: (chap. ii. 13.) that "not the hearers of the law," but the doers, shall be justified. See also chap. vi. He tells the Galatians (chap. v. ver. 6.) that the faith, by which they must be saved, must be a faith working by charity. He also tells the Corinthians (1 Corinthians vii. 19.) that circumcision is nothing, nor uncircumcision, but the keeping of the commandments of God. That though a man should have a faith, that so he could remove mountains, it would avail him nothing without charity. How often does he tell us that they who commit such and such sins, shall not inherit or possess the kingdom of God? Does not St. James tell us, that faith without good works is dead? See chap. ii. Of this more hereafter. (Witham)

St.John Chyrsostom comments showing that St. Paul is referring to the possibility of salvation for the Gentiles who don't keep the kosher laws. Ver. 28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the Law. When he had shown that by faith they were superior to the Jews, then he goes on with great confidence to discourse upon it also, and what seemed therein to annoy he again heals up. For these two things were what confused the Jews; one, if it were possible for men, who with works were not saved, to be saved without them, and another, if it were just for the uncircumcised to enjoy the same blessings with those, who had during so long a period been nurtured in the Law; which last confused them more by far than the former. And on this ground having proved the former, he goes on to the other next, which perplexed the Jews so far, that they even complained on account of this position against Peter after they believed. What does he say then? Therefore we conclude, that by faith a man is justified. He does not say, a Jew, or one under the Law, but after leading forth his discourse into a large room, and opening the doors of faith to the world, he says a man, the name common to our race. And then having taken occasion from this, he meets an objection not set down. For since it was likely that the Jews, upon hearing that faith justifies every man, would take it ill and feel offended, he goes on,
2,378 posted on 12/03/2011 7:30:50 PM PST by rzman21
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To: CynicalBear; metmom; smvoice; Iscool; rzman21; MarkBsnr; boatbums; RnMomof7

Christians are able to harmonize all Scripture in a coherent fashion.

so you think Acts 16:30 teaches believing on the Lord Jesus Christ saves not only the person believing, but also their household?
that’s what the verse says, but is your conclusion correct?

NO!

obviously Paul had more to say on the Gospel and must have explained he and his family must be baptized for the remission of sins for we read in v32 he preached to them and v33 BAPTIZED them.
Luke already made clear to anyone reading Acts in 2:38 baptism is for the remission of sins.
NO WHERE DOES THE BIBLE TEACH THAT BAPTISM IS DONE OUT OF OBEDIENCE OR FOR AN OUTWARD DISPLAY.
notice, no Scripture is ever provided to back claims like this up, it is accepted on TRADITION OF MEN FROM THE 16TH CENTURY.

finally you claim NO ONE CAN DENY baptism is a work of righteouness or something we have done.

CHRISTIANITY FOR 2,000 YEARS HAS DENIED THIS.

BAPTISM IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO, YOU CAN’T BAPTIZE YOURSELF. THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTIZES YOU BY THE CHURCH.

A “work” is something YOU DO ( giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, helping an old lady across the street, excercising faith, etc )
these are examples of “works” in the Bible.

now, watch this, Baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit, thru the Church.

IT IS DONE TO YOU, NOT BY YOU.

LET’S REPEAT THAT, BAPTISM IS DONE TO YOU, NOT BY YOU.

1 Peter tells us baptism saves us and Titus 3 tells us we are not saved by works of righteouness,.

So by the Bible’s defintion of “ works of righteousness”, Baptism is not one.

Of course, this has been orthodox Christian doctrine for 2,000 years, and the fact some departed from the Faith in the 16th century, doesn’t make it less Biblical or less true.

finally, i see we are back to using the unbiblical phrase “ water baptism”
can you show me anywhere in the NT where “baptism” is called “water baptism”?


2,692 posted on 12/04/2011 7:09:15 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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