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To: metmom
St. Ignatius of Antioch Epistle to the Smyrneans AD 105 CHAPTER 8 8:1 But avoid divisions, as being the beginning of evils. Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father; and follow the presbyters as the apostles; and have respect unto the deacons as unto the commandment of God. Let no one, apart from the bishop, do any of the things that appertain unto the church. Let that eucharist alone be considered valid which is celebrated in the presence of the bishop, or of him to whom he shall have entrusted it. 8:2 Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful either to baptize, or to hold a love-feast without the consent of the bishop; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that also is well pleasing unto God, to the end that whatever is done may be safe and sure.

VIII 1. Πάντες τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ἀκολουθεῖτε, ὡς Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς τῷ πατρί, καὶ τῷ πρεσβυτερἰῳ ὡς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις. τοὺς δὲ διακόνους ἐντρέπεσθε ὡς θεοῦ ἐντολήν. μηδεὶς χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου τι πρασσέτω τῶν ἀνηκόντων εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν. ἐκείνη βεβαία εὐχαριστία ἡγείσθω, ἡ ὑπὸ ἐπίσοπον οὖσα ἢ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς ἐπιτρέψῃ. 2. ὅπου ἂν φανῇ ὁ ἐπίσκοπος, ἐκεῖ τὸ πλῆθος ἤτω, ὥσπερ ὅπου ἂν ῇ Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, ἐκεῖ ἡ

καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία

. οὐκ ἐξόν ἐστιν χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου οὔτε βαπτίζειν οὔτε ἀγάπην ποιεῖν· ἀλλ’ ὃ ἂν ἐκεῖνος δοκιμάσῃ, τοῦτο καὶ τῷ θεῷ εὐάρεστον, ἵνα ἀσφαλὲς ᾖ καὶ βέβαιον πᾶν ὃ πράσσετε.
1,706 posted on 11/30/2011 3:28:31 PM PST by rzman21
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To: rzman21
Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father; and follow the presbyters as the apostles; and have respect unto the deacons as unto the commandment of God.

Serious problem there as the author puts bishops, prebyters and decons on the same level as God...they are not nor do they represent God. Only Christ was the exact representation of God...he Was God and Is God...and we are told to not only seek Him but hear Him.

1,713 posted on 11/30/2011 3:43:53 PM PST by caww
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To: rzman21; metmom; CynicalBear
Very easy to understand why so many catholics are confused over what they believe after reading that... or can't believe.

The read would obviously place the reader directly under legalistic teachings...and once again rather than point a believer to Christ and His authority or His words, it steers to another source...and the problem with catholic teachings.......they flood out Christ to the point the centrality of Christ is lost in all the rules, regulations, rituals and many other distractions where one can only assume they have lost the way....meanwhile these teachers puff themselves up as they overstep the simplicity of the Gospel message, which is in Christ, and thereby lead others to miss the mark of the high calling which is in Christ....

When all is said and done they become that of a librarian or record keeper where they can and do draw on their lists or records of the knowlege of men..rather than thru Christ and His word....and often appear quite lost when scriptures are presented...but they know catholic history like the back of their hand..as presented by their teachers.

1,730 posted on 11/30/2011 4:12:15 PM PST by caww
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To: rzman21; metmom
>>Do ye all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ doth the Father<<

They aren’t even Biblically qualified to hold the office why would we follow someone the scripture says is not supposed to be in that position?

1,743 posted on 11/30/2011 5:23:16 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: rzman21
St. Ignatius of Antioch Epistle to the Smyrneans AD 105 CHAPTER 8 8:1

Ignatius' writings are proven forgeries...Why do you keep referencing them as if there is some truth to them???

1,846 posted on 12/01/2011 6:42:46 AM PST by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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