Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
“It’s called Bible study”
LOL, with study like that you would get an “f”
I want to give you a homework assignment. Look at the beginning of every Pauline Epistle and you will find it contains the word “Paul”. Every one.
even the two salutations your “study” uncovered, mentions “Paul”
now what is different about Hebrews?
NO MENTION OF PAUL.
Salutations were contained in most letters written back then, are all letters containing “salutations” Scripture?
the bottom line is without the authority of the Catholic Church telling us Hebrews is Scripture, we would have not way of knowing it.
RN is correct. The Church knows Mormons are not Christians, therefore what they call “baptism” is invalid.
Even though they have an imperfect faith, the Church believes Lutherans and Presbyterians to be Christian, therefore if they are received into the Church, they are not “re-baptized” since they have had Christian baptism already.
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
30And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
i am having another alena morrisette “isn’t it ironic”? moment!!
here we have Catholic Church Fathers quoted to somehow support “sola scriptura”, by someone who would call all these men “heretics”, just as Catholics today are accused of being heretics!
all of these men listed believed the following:
baptismal regeneration
infant baptism
the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
the sacrifice of the Mass
prayers for the dead
prayers to the saints
the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
the Bishop of Rome as the successor to St Peter
apostolic succession
confession to a priest
the Trinity
all of these men would consider the person citing them as a heretic.
just one example: these men all believed that we are regenerated by baptism, that our sins are forgiven and we receive the Holy Spirit.
does rnmomof7 believe this? she can answer that for herself, but i think we all know the answer.
so Catholics will continue to hold to the Faith once delivered to the saints ( and believed by the Church Fathers )
we invite the unbelievers to join us.
yes, i apologize to everyone for the formatting.
i do not know computers very well, my secretary would be amazed i can cut and paste at all.
somtimes it works, other times it is a mess.
all i can say is, if i post something, it is worth reading!
now, i find it very interesting that someone would be a member of a church that they feel is “unscriptural”
no baptist churches in your area?
you are correct rz, if she rejects Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, she will not listen to Ambrose, Augustine, Cyril, Athanatius, Jerome, Irenaeus, Cyprian, etc. etc.
There only salvation in Christ Jesus in the Church he founded. Not outside it.
“The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shall be outside of the Church...He who does not hold this unity does not hold God’s law, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.”
Cyprian,Unity of the Church,5(A.D. 256),in ANF,V:423
Maybe you might be happy with the Taliban.
Oh, the irony......
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM
Can. 209 §1. The Christian faithful, even in their own manner of acting, are always obliged to maintain communion with the Church.
§2. With great diligence they are to fulfill the duties which they owe to the universal Church and the particular church to which they belong according to the prescripts of the law.
Can. 210 All the Christian faithful must direct their efforts to lead a holy life and to promote the growth of the Church and its continual sanctification, according to their own condition.
Can. 211 All the Christian faithful have the duty and right to work so that the divine message of salvation more and more reaches all people in every age and in every land.
Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
Can. 222 §1. The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers.
§2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources.
Arguing with Evangelical Fundamentalists is pointless, considering they believe they are wiser than all Christians who preceded them.
Reasoning with them is pointless.
guilty as charged, we do keep the doctrines and traditions of men......Luke, Matthew, John, Paul , Peter, Mark, Thomas, Andrew, etc.
“Heretics bring sentence upon themselves since they by their own choice withdraw from the Church, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes damnation. Between heresy and schism separates one from the Church on account of disagreement with the bishop.”
Jerome,Commentaries on the Epistle to Titus,3:10(A.D. 386),in JUR,II:194
“And this confession is indeed rightly made by them, for they have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.”
Ambrose,Concerning Repentance,33(A.D. 390),in NPNF2,X:334
“But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe.”
Augustine,On Faith and Creed,10(A.D. 393),in NPNF1,III:331
“In the time of Donatus, from whom his followers were called Donatists, when great numbers in Africa were rushing headlong into their own mad error, and unmindful of their name, their religion, their profession, were preferring the sacrilegious temerity of one man before the Church of Christ, then they alone throughout Africa were safe within the sacred precincts of the Catholic faith, who, detesting the profane schism, continued in communion with the universal Church, leaving to posterity an illustrious example, how, and how well in future the soundness of the whole body should be preferred before the madness of one, or at most of a few.”
Vincent of Lerins,Commonitories,9(A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:133
Maybe you might be happy with the Taliban.
Oh, the irony......
►VEHEMENTER NOS, Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906:
It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock, those who occupy a rank in the different degrees of the hierarchy and the multitude of the faithful. So distinct are these categories that with the pastoral body only rests the necessary right and authority for promoting the end of the society and directing all its members towards that end; the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastor
►http://baltimore-catechism.com/lesson12.htm:
Q. 554. Could a person who denies only one article of our faith be a Catholic?
A. A person who denies even one article of our faith could not be a Catholic; for truth is one and we must accept it whole and entire or not at all.
►“Once he does so (joins the Catholic church), he has no further use for his reason. He enters the Church, an edifice illumined by the superior light of revelation and faith. He can leave reason like a lantern at the door.” (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapter XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York )
►“All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.”
“...outside the pale of Rome there is not a scrap of additional truth of Revelation to be found.”
“He willingly submits his judgment on questions the most momentous that can occupy the mind of man-----questions of religion-----to an authority located in Rome.”
“Absolute, immediate, and unfaltering submission to the teaching of God's Church on matters of faith and morals-----this is what all must give..”
“The Vicar of Christ is the Vicar of God; to us the voice of the Pope is the voice of God. This, too, is why Catholics would never dream of calling in question the utterance of a priest in expounding Christian doctrine according to the teaching of the Church;” “He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips.” - “Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 )
Obey blindly , that is, without asking reasons. Be careful, then, never to examine the directions of your confessor....In a word, keep before your eyes this great rule, that in obeying your confessor you obey God. Force yourself then, to obey him in spite of all fears. And be persuaded that if you are not obedient to him it will be impossible for you to go on well; but if you obey him you are secure. But you say, if I am damned in consequence of obeying my confessor, who will rescue me from hell? What you say is impossible." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p 352, Benziger Brothers, NY
►PRAECLARA GRATULATIONIS PUBLICAE, Apostolic Letter of Pope Leo XIII, June 20, 1894
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ..
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13praec.htm
The leadership of the Apostolic See has always been active, and therefore because of its preeminent authority , the whole Church must agree with it." (On Faith And Religion), Encyclical promulgated on November 9, 1846, #11. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quiplu.htm
►"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11)
*Partial list of references to Divine written revelation being written (Scripture) and references to it, substantiating the claim that as they were written, the written word became the standard for obedience and in establishing truth claims
as much as i hate to do it, iscool is correct. the Church teaches the Holy Spirit is the author of the Scriptures and He used humans to write down the words. therefore, Paul and Matthew are equal in that they both are the word of God.
The Taliban and the Muslim fundamentalists reject the role of reason.
And like Evangelical Fundamentalists, they are anti-hierarchical.
All fundamentalists share a fear of things they do not understand.
And from what I can see here, your understanding of Catholicism, the Church fathers, and ancient Christian praxis is limited.
Fixed it.....
Peter speaking here....
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
And that includes the name *Catholic*.
how can one believe God is able to preserve His word in the Scriptures, but He was unable to preserve His Body, the Church?
Christians believe God preserved His WORD AND BODY.
Opinion pieces by men.
Let me know when you have something God breathed, like Scripture.
Everything you have written here are opinion pieces. There isn’t anything Biblical about anything you believe.
I’ll take the opinions of the Church fathers over yours and their understanding of scripture over yours.
rz, thanks for posting.
the natural man looks at the Church and sees a human institution, one that can be rejected like the moose club or rotary club.
the Christian sees the Church for what it is, the Body of Christ on earth. the Christian doesn’t attack the Faith, like atheists do ( only difference is these folks will pull a verse or two out of context ), the Christian loves the Church as we love the head of it, Jesus Christ.
the Christian follows the command of Jesus to be one, to be unified in the Faith.
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