Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[Judith Anne]

>>>Hopefully, you guys will stop doing it.

I won’t. I’m too close to “suicide by mod” at the moment.

[Rashputin]

Very true. About three years ago while I was still desperately trying to remain Lutheran, I read a good series of articles by a Fundi theologian who was warning that the anti-intellectual mindset growing among Fundies and Independents was going to lead to a repeat of the Joseph Smith era and spawn so many new variations on Protestantism that there would be no alternative to joining the Catholic or Orthodox Church. As you might guess, reading through several articles while looking for a reason not to be Catholic and then reading that conclusion in the final installment was a huge kick in the tender zone.

If I can figure out where I read those I'll pass the link along because as I recall the author was well respected in Fundamentalist circles. I think he was a Liberty University alumni or possibly even on the faculty there. At any rate, there is a very hard core anti-intellectual mindset in over half of those I've ever known who consider themselves to be Fundamentalist. That's why I'm not surprised to run into so many from that end of the spectrum who adopt the views of the Know Nothings from earlier in our history. So many of the Protestant and Protestant derived groups have thrown the baby out with the bath water that they can't differentiate themselves other than by making a large windmill to tilt with, so, they riffle through history looking for something that was successful in making a buck from the gullible in the past and start marketing the same thing all over again. If their marketing skills matched their repetition skills they'd call Cincinnati the Babylon spoken of in the Bible and write themselves a new book like Smith did instead of limiting themselves to the small market segment of gullible folks who still buy the lies about the Church Christ founded.

Hang in there, I really appreciate your posts here.

Regards & God Bless - you're in my prayers

[caww]

I’m making that statement having read about Islam extensively.

.....A 42 year old large sailing ship captain (someone like Columbus, for example), gets provisions from the King and investors to explore for what lies at the other side of the ocean...

.... He wants to find "the truth" of what lies out there. ..... But keep in mind, he went through a long and arduous process (education) of going through the ranks before he reached this point in his life.

He is well respected by the King and investors, who both believe he has the skills and abilities to head into the uncertainty of the trip, and also to survive and return with the knowledge (and hopefully gold) of what's out there. (The Truth).

On his way out of the bay to begin his voyage, he passes a 42 year old amateur sailor with a small boat, cruising around the bay, going quickly from port to port.... This amateur sailor also wants to find out what's on the other side of the sea...... The problem is he does not have the sailing experience, abilities, financial backing, respect nor a sea worthy craft capable of the monumental venture.

[rzman21]

The Spirit of God is one of humility and peace. Arrogance, pride, haughtiness, divisiveness are all Satanic in origin.

Fundamentalists are to blame for the de-Christianization of the West because they have produced equal and opposite reactions.

Everywhere the Calvinist-tinged fundamentalists held sway in Europe in the 16th-18th centuries are now pagan. Evangelicalism in America is crumbling because of their anti-intellectualism and their youth fleeing into emotionalism and pietism.

The same problem has infected the Catholic Church in the U.S. where Calvinism’s Catholic cousin Jansenism infected the Church via the Irish and French.

Fundamentalist Calvinists have done more to harm the cause of Christ than almost any other group because their rigidity without charity has spawned rebellion.

Lutheranism is cut from different cloth than Calvinism because it never discouraged learning.

Today’s problems are ones that need faith and reason, not faith without reason. Both come from God.

I don’t see much of a difference between a fundamentalist and an atheist.

[boatbums]

Yes, it does come across as “bossy”. It’s not the first time.

I'm disappointed. You should have posted my comment in context rather than snippet - you know, what we are always accused of doing - I wasn't trying to be "bossy" but giving some advice. Here's what I actually said, ROE:

I have a suggestion for your "better strategy" to change the RF. Knock off the attitude of accusing everyone of "ignorance, bigotry, and lying". Try to imagine that just maybe they are NOT ignorant or bigoted or lying. I guarantee just that will change the atmosphere at once. You don't even have to make it a New Year's resolution, you can start right now! You're welcome. Glad to help.

In case you wonder why I said ignorance, bigotry and lying in parenthesis, it was because that is what JA accused the Non-Caths as doing. I would love to see a change on these forums. I try hard to keep dialog going, so please as y'all so often remind us, look in the mirror and take out the mote in your own eye first. I can guarantee the climate will cool down.

[presently no screen name]

God wants us to know we HAVE eternal life and that is why he said so over and over again in Scripture, is acknowledging trust in God.

Exactly. FAITH in Jesus and what He has ALREADY done for us.

To insist that NO ONE can know, is actually calling God a liar.

The apostles knew, Paul knew "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you". Phil 1:23

And Jesus said - "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you TO BE with ME that YOU, also, MAY BE WHERE I am ." John 14:3

And those are only two examples. Like you said, boatbums, God told us over and over in His Word. But, who, since the beginning of time has been trying to prove God's Word a lie? 'Did God really say..' And what spirit would that be in those man made teachings since we wrestle not with flesh and blood. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places."

"I didn't think you really MEANT it!" That will not be a happy day.

Nor a happy eternity. "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live".

And they chose death and curses. When they see Him face to face - they will fall down speechless for they will see the face of TRUTH but it will be too late. Many are hell bent on following man and their man made teachings.

[Judith Anne]

As I said, not likely,

[rzman21]

If you want to call Catholicism pagan. Then I think you shouldn’t mind us calling Fundamentalism Satanic and Fundamentalists crypto-Satanists.

Fundamentalists have a bit in common with St. Peter when Jesus rebuked his arrogance, saying “Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”
Matthew 16:23

So from my view, the only thing missing are the horns because the attitude is the same.

Fundamentalists follow Satan and not God.

[presently no screen name]

I know that God will lead the heart and mind of those who are determined to know His truth

Determined is the key - because God is faithful so we know He already has presented them with Truth but they refuse to hear/see. As we know, there are 'many' not determined to know His Truth - and chose the 'wide' path to destruction.

[caww]

There is a very hard core anti-intellectual mindset in over half of those I've ever known who consider themselves to be Fundamentalist. That's why I'm not surprised to run into so many from that end of the spectrum who adopt the views of the Know Nothings from earlier in our history

You are looking only on the surface of things.... If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he......2 Corinthians 10:7

Jesus said,... "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have...... 'hidden these things from the wise and learned',........ and revealed them to little children". ...Matt 11:25

Jesus replied,... "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was.... 'not revealed to you by man'.... but by my Father in heaven..... Matthew 16:17

God has... 'revealed it to us by his Spirit'.... The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God......1 Corinthians 2:10 Paul had been taught what Christianity was.... 'by his encounter with the Lord Jesus'.... on the way to Damascus..... Acts 9:5; Acts 26:14-18;

[boatbums]

So who do you suppose are the Fundamentalists here? What do you define as Fundamentalism? You have to have more than just an itch to get even or else your posts come across as vindictive and far from intellectual. God said he wanted us to come and reason with him. He wants us to know that though our sins are like scarlet, they will be white as snow. Though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool. So what do you think he wants to reason with us about? If not this fundamental issue, then what else is more important? As you have done repeatedly on this thread and others I have read is to try and place everyone in a box with a label on the outside. The problem with that is you cannot do it and remain reasonable. God doesn't work that way and his truth cannot be reduced to a formula.

When Jesus rebuked Peter, it was NOT because he was a "Fundamentalist", that's laughable, but that he thought he knew better than Jesus. He did not hear all the times that Jesus said he was going to die nor did it sink in about why he was going to. Even at the tomb that resurrection morning, he STILL wasn't sure. So, if you really want to participate on these forums and it is more than just a desire to read your own words and impress everyone, then treat others as equals. Allow that others don't necessarily see things the way you do but that we can all learn from each other. Respect spawns respect. Allow that others here love the Lord, too, and seek to serve him with all they have.

[Judith Anne]

Another bossy protestant post. MMMooooooo.

>>>>>>When Jesus rebuked Peter, it was NOT because he was a “Fundamentalist”, that’s laughable, but that he thought he knew better than Jesus.

That’s what we call an oxymoron.

[presently no screen name]

The difference is in the Truth and whether it is proclaimed and protected and unchangeable. That is the Church.

The Church is built on JESUS the Son of The MOST HIGH . JESUS is The ONE Way, the ONE Truth, the ONE Life. There is no other Truth outside of JESUS, THE WORD, Who is TRUTH.

And God, His Word, NEVER changes - IT ALWAYS WAS and ALWAYS WILL BE.

God's Holy Spirit inspired WORD is The Final Authority for HIS Church.

[caww]

It is a hard thing for the "intellectuals" to understand the simplicty which is in Christ Jesus.....there always must be more to it...it can't possibly be simple enough that a child can wade in, and deep enough for an adult to swim in the riches which are in Christ Jesus and the truths He would have them to know.

He is what satsfies and enlarges our understanding....oddly enough catholics seem to think you have to have a broad understanding of their churches history as well.....and that picture isn't at all pretty or desirable...Seems to me they didn't listen then either, nor could they agree with one another... no wonder there was the reformation!

God gave them so many chances to put away the pagan rituals and practices which they welcomed into the church... instead they built on them.... So then God rose up the willing who would lead the faithful out of the vileness the church had become...and still retains to this day....they still have not learned and hold tightly to those same pagan practices.

[presently no screen name]

and deep enough for an adult to swim in the riches which are in Christ Jesus and the truths He would have them to know.

AMEN!! So well said.

. no wonder there was the reformation!

God is Faithful to deliver His own out of bondage!

[caww]

Notice that you have been basically isolated by a pack of attack proddies. At a time like that, I’d just bless everyone and leave

Well that comment to another poster certainly makes your post to me....

("May the Lord Jesus and God Almighty bless you with a sound mind, a peaceful heart, and a blessed Christmas with your loved ones.")

....empty words, null and void.. and your change of strategy for Christmas likely didn't connect your head with your heart....

However...here is my Christmas Greeting for you to ponder as we all do at this time:

....."He came, not as a flash of light or as an unapproachable conqueror, but as one whose first cries were heard by a peasant girl and a sleepy carpenter..... God tapped humanity on its collective shoulder, "Pardon me," he said,..... and.........Eternity interrupted time......... Divinity interrupted carnality....... and Heaven interrupted the earth in the form of a baby...... Christianity was born in one big heavenly interruption.

Max Lucado

[caww]

You truly believe you are being persecuted here?

What if,.. as in the churches years prior when God was trying to reach the church,... the Lord was attempting to reach you with HIS truth in the way in which He wants you to know it... and in order to do so must loosen your grip on anything other than Himself...... What if the posters posting the truth about Rome and the Catholic church are indeed telling the truth?

Let me ask this...in what way would you accept correction from the Lord should these posters be true in what they’re posting?

[Judith Anne]

....empty words, null and void.. and your change of strategy for Christmas likely didn’t connect your head with your heart....

Oh, get over yourself! Now you won’t even accept a blessing unless it conforums to your specifications. You proddies are just a bit legalistic, and more than a bit demanding.

Tell you what — I’ll take back my “null and void” post to you, since you don’t like it. “May the Lord Jesus and God Almighty NOT bless you with a sound mind, a peaceful heart, and a blessed Christmas with your loved ones.”

How about this, instead: “Have a nice day, heretic!”

[MarkBsnr]

Protestants worship a combination of the book and the self.

So say pagans.

Yes, we know.

[MarkBsnr]

He is beyond our comprehension and is unknowable to us apart from the Incarnation.

We can attempt to describe Him, as the ancient Israelites did, but yes, we will fall very short aside from His Incarnation.