Gay Episcopal Bishop to Preach at San Francisco Catholic Parish

Catholic Culture ^ | 11/22/11

[marshmallow]

A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.

Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.

[metmom]

Romans 10:8-13 8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

[MHGinTN]

But but but, that ends the argument ... to rational minds, anyway. ; ^)

[CynicalBear]

>>11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."<<

And isn’t it interesting that Paul was writing to all the believers in Corinth and not just those in leadership positions.

[CynicalBear]

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 1 5And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

[rzman21]

But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matthew 5:29

[rzman21]

[rzman21]

[MarkBsnr]

Very good. You have kindly illustrated the difference once again between faith and knowledge. Thank you.

[rzman21]

Up until Vatican II, they taught that you are going to hell unless you join their religion and bow down to their pope... >>You distort Catholic teaching prior to Vatican II. One Fr. Leonard Feeney was excommunicated by Pope Pius XII for teaching the sort of strict interpretation of the dogma "outside the Church there is no salvation" that you suggest was official teaching. The Catholic Church has always held out the possibility that God holds mercy for the righteous yet invincibly ignorant.

LETTER OF THE SACRED CONGREGATION OF THE HOLY OFFICE Archbishop Richard J. Cushing Given on August 8, 1949 explaining the true sense of Catholic doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church. This important Letter of the Holy Office is introduced by a letter of the Most Reverend Archbishop of Boston. The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has examined again the problem of Father Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict Center. Having studied carefully the publications issued by the Center, and having considered all the circumstances of this case, the Sacred Congregation has ordered me to publish, in its entirety, the letter which the same Congregation sent me on the 8th of August, 1949. The Supreme Pontiff, His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, has given full approval to this decision. In due obedience, therefore, we publish, in its entirety, the Latin text of the letter as received from the Holy Office with an English translation of the same approved by the Holy See. Given at Boston, Mass., the 4th day of September, 1952. Walter J. Furlong, Chancellor Richard J. Cushing, Archbishop of Boston. LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949. Your Excellency: This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of "St. Benedict Center" and "Boston College" in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: "Outside the Church there is no salvation." After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of "St. Benedict Center" explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, "outside the Church there is no salvation," was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities. Accordingly, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of this Supreme Congregation, in a plenary session held on Wednesday, July 27, 1949, decreed, and the august Pontiff in an audience on the following Thursday, July 28, 1949, deigned to give his approval, that the following explanations pertinent to the doctrine, and also that invitations and exhortations relevant to discipline be given: We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792). Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church. However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church. Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20). Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth. Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth. Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory. In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man's final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807). The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing. However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God. These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire. Discussing the members of which the Mystical Body is-composed here on earth, the same august Pontiff says: "Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed." Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who "are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation" since "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church" (AAS, 1. c., p. 243). With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, , in , n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, , in , n. 1677). But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Heb. 11:6). The Council of Trent declares (Session VI, chap. 8): "Faith is the beginning of man's salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children" (Denzinger, n. 801). From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical , fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to those within the Church and those without. From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound' of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops "whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church" (Acts 20:28). Hence, one cannot understand how the St. Benedict Center can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of canons 1381 and 1382 of the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences. Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a "Defender of the Faith," and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church. Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the "" which is prescribed by the sacred canons. Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after "Rome has spoken" they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church "only by an unconscious desire." Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation. In sending this letter, I declare my profound esteem, and remain, Your Excellency's most devoted, F. Cardinal Marchetti-Selvaggiani. A. Ottaviani, Assessor. (Private); Holy Office, 8 Aug., 1949. Provided Courtesy of: Eternal Word Television Network 5817 Old Leeds Road Irondale, AL 35210 www.ewtn.com HOME-EWTNews-FAITH-TELEVISION-RADIO-LIBRARY-GALLERY-CATALOGUE-GENERAL ESPAÑOL

[Quix]

I have no capacity to bore a hole and pour the truth in.

I can only offer it, prayerfully.

[rzman21]

Apparently individual Protestants can have wildly divergent interpretations of scripture and still be infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit.

[Quix]

I do appreciate your posting your UNBiblical junk as a mass of words folks won’t read.

[rzman21]

I approach Mariology the same way that the Council of Ephesus did. It defined Mary as Theotokos to defend against Nestorius’s effort to say that Christ’s humanity was not united with his divinity.

[rzman21]

Grace alone produces works, which leads to explicit faith.

[Rashputin]

LOL, and another straw is grasped and waved in the air.

What's interesting is that anyone thinks Paul wanting to greet all the believers and expected what he wrote to be read to them it means there's no real shepherd ordained and appointed to lead the sheep but that a clear and direct quote of what Christ said has to be reinterpreted and twisted. If that sort of self-absorbed distortion of the Scriptures isn't enough, what's just as interesting is how there's no limit to the amount of Scripture the infalliable interpreters of Scriptures are willing to ignore and/or reinterpret to keep beating the dead horses of their heresies.

Num 16:1 And behold Core the son of Isaar, the son of Caath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiron the sons of Eliab, and Hon the son of Pheleth of the children of Ruben,
Num 16:2 Rose up against Moses, and with them two hundred and fifty others of the children of Israel, leading men of the synagogue, and who in the time of assembly were called by name.
Num 16:3 Let it be enough for you, that all the multitude consisteth of holy ones, and the Lord is among them: Why lift you up yourselves above the people of the Lord?

Jude 1:9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee.
Jude 1:10 But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them, for they have gone in the way of Cain: and after the error of Balaam they have for reward poured out themselves, and have perished in the contradiction of Core.

First Core decides he doesn't want a priesthood, and about three thousand years later Luther does exactly the same thing. It's pretty easy to see why Luther really wanted to throw out the book of Jude and relied so little on the Old Testament. He was afraid someone might stumble over the clear Scriptures that show exactly how wrong his ideas were and what God Himself did about it. God Himself punished Core and his crowd for asserting that the "priesthood of all believers" was sufficient and that there should be no priesthood.

[RnMomof7]

Very good. You have kindly illustrated the difference once again between faith and knowledge. Thank you.

Faith that has no foundation is foolishness not faith...

The Muslims have faith there are 12 virgins waiting for them in heaven if they kill for allah..

The Mormons have faith that Joseph Smith found plates of gold and that temple worthy males will be gods with their own planets

Our faith is to stand on solid ground..God left evidence of His truths so that men might have assurity in their faith

"The bereans were applauded for checking those things they were taught as true against the scriptures.. they wanted a founded faith...

Act 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Peter advises us

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

We do not have a God that wishes to keep secret who hides who He is or how He works . He has left historic evidence in His word ..and he left NO historic evidence of much of the doctrine of men /tradition .. of Catholicism..

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

[RnMomof7]

Grace alone produces works, which leads to explicit faith.

Where do we find this recipe for salvation??

Here is mine

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

[metmom]

Apparently individual Protestants can have wildly divergent interpretations of scripture and still be infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit.

Such as? What *wildly divergent interpretations* are you referring to?

Please provide a couple examples.

[D-fendr]

He has left historic evidence in His word

And we have the Methodist to thank for that, keeping, compiling, copying protecting.. throughout history...

.:)

[metmom]

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Ephesians 2:10 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

And the good works we are to walk in when we are saved are also laid out for us to do by God who gives us the desire and ability to do them.

Saving faith is living faith that produces good works and the fruit of the Spirit.

Intellectual assent, to which works are added to try to earn salvation don't cut it. because the trust is in one's own ability to be righteous and we are not.

Only when one realizes that within us dwells NO GOOD THING, can we turn to Christ in repentance and ask forgiveness and be saved. Then the Holy Spirit dwells within us, giving us a new nature and we are clothed in the righteousness of CHRIST, not our own so that no one has anything to boast about before God.