Posted on 11/23/2011 11:11:08 AM PST by marshmallow
A notoriously 'gay-friendly' parish in San Francisco has invited an openly homosexual Episcopalian cleric to lead an Advent Vespers service.
Most Holy Redeemer parish asked Bishop Otis Charles, a retired Episcopalian prelate, to lead the November 30 service. After serving as the Bishop of Utah from 1971 to 1993, he publicly announced that he is homosexual. Divorced from the mother of his 5 children, he solemnized a same-sex union in 2004.
So you are sounding like a bit of a Mormon claiming that some Great Apostasy took place around 200 A.D.
So you are saying that Jesus was a liar and that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church.
Original scripture? Maybe you should think about restoring the First Epistle of St. Clement and the Didache to your canon considering they were regarded as scripture by many Christians at that point in time.
Face it, Evangelicalism didn’t even exist in the 1st century. We call First Century Evangelicals Gnostics.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm
How do you define "remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"?
How do you know that your definition is correct?
We see this posting behaviour over and over again on here. I don't know if it reflects a mind that refuses to reject discredited points, a willful ignorance, or a hope that the truth will not always follow them or maybe not this time. Oh well.. Once again, in context:
"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
How do you define "remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"?
So what I hear on FR from the Protestants are cliches.Many of the more vitriolic here barely qualify as Proddies, they are JW's, pagans and other odd cultists. This is why so many of them cowardly refuse to identify their own tiny little splinter sects, they know how indefensible they are.
Yes, the protestant view of the church and the LDS view are quite similar.
The LDS phenomenon could only have arisen in a protestant country, and could not have succeeded otherwise.
Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
Galatians 3:26-27 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Jesus came to save individuals, like it or not. It's all about me and God. I am answerable to Him and Him alone.
Romans 14:1-8 1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." 12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Yup, just me and Him. He's the only one I answer to.
+ :)
Excepting papal supremacy and the related dogmas, the separated Eastern Churches agree with Rome on virtually every point that Evangelicalism says the Church apostatized on.
Some fallible person had to have gotten some sort of cue 1600 years later what the apostles really meant when they penned the New Testament. I guess they had hidden knowledge that escaped the Church Fathers and the early Councils.
But that sounds awfully Gnostic to me.
That the Ashteroth-Mary-Goddess Magicsterical Power-mongers would construe the demonic moon-god cult of Islam as kosher, somehow fits the demonic forces behind both blasphemous heresies.
| "'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it.... |
How do you know YOUR definition is correct?
Is remembering the Sabbath and keeping it holy merely going to church in the morning and then doing whatever you feel like the rest of the day?
No, I’m saying the RCC is not “the church, the bride of Christ”. It’s as simple as that.
>> We call First Century Evangelicals Gnostics.<<
The true church, the bride of Christ really don’t care what the RCC says about them.
Once it’s been pointed out that the snippet they use to join Catholics and Muslims is under the heading: The Church and non-Christians, an honest poster would note this and not pretend they were not refuted - requiring they be corrected each and every time, that the snippet is part of the explanation that all are included in God the Father’s will to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church.
We see this posting behaviour over and over again on here. I don’t know if it reflects a mind that refuses to reject discredited points, a willful ignorance, or a hope that the truth will not always follow them or maybe not this time. Oh well.. Once again, in context:
The Church and non-Christians
“Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329
And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332
In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
Correct; and I'm sure that I'm somewhat taller.
Tell me, when someone gets married do they not enter a covenant relationship with each other? Or is it a business contract, more like a bill of sale?
I promised her. That is not legal. It is moral.
Does she, or would she, cease to be your wife because she burnt the dinner or neglected to mop the floor one day? Does a husband send his wife away with a bill of divorcement because she didn’t do enough good works to earn or maintain her position as his wife?
No. However, if she wants a divorce and enforces that want, then she divorces.
What about children? Are they not born or adopted into your family? And when they disobey, as children will, do they cease to be your children? Does that sever the relationship and you kick them out of the house? Or does it only disrupt the lines of communication but they are still your beloved children whom you love but have seen do something that hurts them? Of course you want them in right relationship with you so they can reap the benefit of being your children, BUT they are still your children, disobedience or not. All their disobedience does is interfere with their ability to experience the fulness of a relationship with you. They don’t cease to be your children.
But they can refuse their inheritance. You may be missing the point that we are trying to make. It is not God that is unfaithful, it is fickle man. God is not an overpowering nanny. Scripture does not say that. Neither does it say that He hijacks our souls.
It’s about relationship, not religion and rules and regulations.
It's about Almighty God, not a beer swilling buddy.
Pure idolatry.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.