Posted on 11/02/2011 9:26:44 AM PDT by DogwoodSouth
Well, I'm not a theological expert, so I can't explain exactly how praying for anyone (dead or not) works. I just know that we are commanded to pray for one another. Scripture commands us to "pray without ceasing" (1 Thessalonians 5:17) and specifically demands that we intercede "for one another" (James 5:16) and that we pray "for all" (1 Timothy 2:1). There are no qualifiers in these instructions; nothing that would act as though death has separated the Body of Christ or made prayers ineffective. In addition to this, we know that praying for the souls of the dead was a Jewish practice that Christians continued. 2 Maccabees 12:46 reads: "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins."
Interestingly, the Apostle Paul seems to refer to praying for the dead (in this case, his friend Onesiphorus) in his second letter to Timothy. Specifically, he wrote (important part highlighted): "May the Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chains, but when he was in Rome, he sought me diligently, and found me (the Lord grant to him to find the Lord's mercy on that day); and in how many things he served at Ephesus, you know very well." At the very least, reasonable people could conclude that at the time Paul wrote this, Onesiphorus had died and left behind a family (i.e. "house"), and that Paul was praying in the highlighted words that Onesiphorus would be granted God's mercy on the Day of Judgement.
(Excerpt) Read more at southernfriedcatholicism.com ...
—Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians reject the novelty of imputed grace.—
What do you mean by “imputed grace”?
I know what the words mean individually mean, but I’ve never seen them strung together before.
To quote St. Athanasius of Alexandria:
“God became man so man might become like God.”
After all we were created in his image and likeness.
Absolutely, one should pray for the lost, as that is within Gods will, that all should be saved.
Often I pray that God will bring believers into the lives of my unbelieving friends and relatives.
All apostolic Christians prayed for the dead. For crying out loud even the Lutheran confessions endorsed the practice despite rejecting the medieval excesses of the teaching about purgatory.
It is amazing that one would discount the efficacy of Christ by relying on the prayers of man to bring one through some ‘purging’ of sin that Christ just wasn’t able to cover.
Luther used the analogy of snow on a dung heap to describe what Christ did.
Christ is the snow that covers our sins, but we remain dung.
The Catholic/Orthodox view is that the grace we receive as a result of Christ’s act on the cross cleanses us and transfigures our souls.
This process continues until the Last Judgment when the elect enter heaven. Purgatory/the bosom of Abraham/paradies as Eastern Christians call it will cease to exist at the Last Judgment.
Our prayers comfort the dead as they await the Last Judgment and assist them to enter heaven faster. We don’t know whether a soul is damned or saved, so praying for their souls is an act of charity.
Our prayers merely ask God to show mercy on their souls. It’s God’s decision whether they enter heaven or hell.
Praying that a loved one is in Heaven is one thing, praying to get them there is quite another.
And your basis for your belief is?
That Jesus is sufficient for Salvation.
In the final analysis, He is either all we need, or He only did part of the job.
Second, The Council of Trullo endorsed the Easter letter of Athanasius of Alexandria written in AD 367, which lists the 27 books we have today as part of the New Testament. It also endorsed the Council of Laodicea which listed 26 books (it excluded the Book of Revelation). The point being that the New Testament is not in question. What is in question is the canon of the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish Council of Jamnia held in 90 AD rejected the Septuagint.
Third, I never accused the Easter Orthodox of selling indulgences. In fact, I didn't mention them at all.
Fourth, the first meeting of the Council of Trent occurred before Luther died though his death occurred before the first Council of Trent was concluded. Following that line of reasoning, it further shows that Luther could not have “removed” any books from the canon as the original post asserted. The Council was an attempt at answering the issues raised by the reformation. Prior to the Council, Luther had presented his arguements and in those writing, he clearly advocated a return to Hebrew Bible for the Old Testement.
Fifth, Jesus said “I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes unto the Father but by me.” Thus Jesus is the exclusive and fully sufficient atonement for sin. To cling to the concept of purgatory, one must reject Jesus own words and claim that his is not the one and only way to the father. In essence, purgatory calls Jesus a liar.
I likewise have never understood the Catholic disposition to blindly follow other men and not check the pronouncements against scripture. Further, the ignorance with regards to how the Priests and Popes selectively added books to the canon to justify their money raising operations via the selling of indulgences strikes me as being willful.
Well said.
Of course it is. It IS getting you all the way! But you can’t go to the wedding (heaven) with dirty hands (your soul).
Sounds simple enough to me.
Nope. Not true. This is a CATHLOLIC idea. Not Christian at all.
So, Jesus’ sacrifice still leaves you with dirty hands?
And your prayer for others doesn’t mean that you believe that Jesus’ sacrifice was not enough to get “all the way there,” correct?
So, to sum up, when you pray for people that you think need God’s mercy, it is not a denial of Jesus’ sacrificial sufficiency, but when Catholics pray for people that we think need God’s mercy, it somehow is a denial of the sufficiency of Jesus.
Interesting.
All Christians believes in prayers for the dead before the Protestant Revolution. Rejection of praying for the dead is a heresy.
Who are you to say what’s Christian and what’s not? All you have is your own personal private interpretation of the Bible against 16 centuries of Christian teaching.
I take it that you are smarter than St. Augustine or all of the Christians who lived before the Protestant Revolution.
I pray for the living to accept Christ, prior to their appointed dying and then the Judgement.
Praying for those already dead seems a bit late, the die is cast. Heaven or hell, one way or the other.
For those that die knowing Jesus as Savior, Heaven is the destination. Period. Because Jesus’ sacrifice paid all our debts. All. And those debts are cancelled, providing one accepts Him.
So, in summation, Accept Christ while living, because after you die is a bit late.
The Jewish Council of Jamnia doesn’t concern Christians. In fact it was anti-Christian in nature.
The Jews rejected the Septuagint because Christians used it. I might add that several deuterocanonical books have been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls that predate Jamnia.
You are mistaken. The Council of Trullo was accepted by Pope John VIII in the 9th century, and its canons were regarded as ecumenical save those regarding priestly celibacy and Saturday fasting.
And, further you seem to confuse prayers for the lost (Who do not know Christ) with prayers for the dead. Two diferent animals there.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.