Replies

The Old Testament Jews were looking forward to a Messiah. When Christ came as that true Messiah/Savior, they condemned Him essentially as a false pretender. Was He different from the “orthodox” mainstream view in that culture of what He was “supposed” to be? Yup; and that was because the devout Jews’ traditional view and expectations had been modifed and altered from truth over the centuries. The traditional understanding of the Messiah, then as in our day, had strayed from the truth in important ways.

Even good men such as Saul of Tarsus, steeped in the mainstream religious thinking of his time, were zealously persecuting the Messiah even while, as they supposed, they were acting in His service.

No matter how emphatically and derisively mainstream Jewry rejected Christ then - or how energetically “mainstream” Christians reject Him and restored truths about Him now, reality about God stands independent of the philosophies and doctrines of man.

We are fortunate to live in circumstances where we are free to worship according to the dictates of our own consciences. You are free to persist relentlessly in your (fruitless) efforts to attack the Restored Church of Jesus Christ. My only suggestion to you is that you consider whether you, like Saul of old, may be “kick(ing) against the pricks.”

Well, thank you for stating your opinion.

I'd rather have Lds like yourself state their views -- with some thought put into them like what you have offered -- than simply sulk or hurl invectives or judge motivations.

We are fortunate to live in circumstances where we are free to worship according to the dictates of our own consciences.

My Q back to you JTT...I know this is your 11th article of faith...and therefore you seemingly "have" to believe it...It's tantamount to a "creed..." But have you ever dissected what this means -- if thoroughly applied?

I mean, JusttheTruth, what if I took Smith's "civil" tolerant sounding statement and started applying it theologically?

What? Mormons believe that smoking peyote or something more -- if done under a religious conviction -- is a "privilege" unto man and that God sanctions people "worship[ing] how...or what...may"???

Would that include Manasseh & others engaging in child sacrifice in the OT?
Or what about prostitutes @ some of the pagan temples? This is a god who sanctions that as an endorsement to the point He's willing to build an "article of faith" around it? Wow! (Mormons are pretty liberal, after all)

So the next time a head-hunting, head-shrinker or voodoo thread comes up, should I say, "You Mormons be sure to peep up and 'bless' that with your 'article of faith' endorsement, too"??

You know, JTT, for some reason, the Mormon god contradicts the god of the Bible: "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deut. 12:31)

So did you know that the 11th article of faith contradicts the Old Testament?

You know, I RARELY agree with Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie...But even the Lds “apostle” Bruce McConkie got this one right (I know, quite rare):

“True and saving worship is found only among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency.” [Come Unto Christ Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 45 (1983, 1986)]

You cite Saul of Tarsus in your twisted essay. Are you aware that Paul, that convert--Saul of Tarsus, had as one of the most important changes in his reality the understanding that the Blood Of Jesus cleanses us from unrighteousness? And are you aware that this same 'church of jesus christ of latter day saints' teaches that the blood of christ cannot cleanse anything?

"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]

And here are seven references from The Bible which show this mormonic teaching to be the anti-Christian/spirit of anti-christ:

Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Yeah, you and Milt Rominy want the entire debate to cease so that he can rino his way into the nomination. And Mormons like you --those poor souls trapped in the heretical religion claiming to be 'restored christianity'-- don't want the actual quotes of their founder and subsequent leadership revealed. Your false prophet founder taught that God The Creator was once a man and therefore had to earn the attributes of godhood and be appointed by a council of gods to be god of the earth. MomronISM is polytheism. Are you as a defender of mormonISM proud of that fact?

“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)

Now, that's your mormonism cue to accuse me of hating Mormons. And when you do, some will believe your deceit, but many will understand that it is only love that risks ridicule to reveal truth to the lost. Mormonism is not Christianity, and definitely not Christian in origin.

MormonISM is the very essence of slick anti-Christ inveigling, and the promoters of this anti-Christian religion will continue to be exposed and opposed so long as Christians are not squelched by the political correctness approach inherent in the lie that exposing mormonISM is hate or hatred of the people trapped in this demonic cult

You are free to persist relentlessly in your (fruitless) efforts to attack the Restored Church of Jesus Christ.

THANKS!

That's MIGHTY good of you to allow us to do this!

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).