Posted on 10/28/2011 6:59:29 AM PDT by markomalley
***Deny the indwelling fullness of the Holy Spirit by all true believers at your own peril.***
I have no fear, for I have not done that.
Thank you for your concern though:)
*holy fathers*?
More like this CB.
Matthew 23:1-12 1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3so practice and observe whatever they tell you— but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
"The Christian faithful, conscious of their own responsibility, are bound by Christian obedience to follow what the sacred pastors, as representatives of Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or determine as leaders of the Church." -Vatican II. The Code of Canon Law. Coriden , et al., op. cit. Canon 212, Section 1.
Looks to me like "The CC says only it can tell people what is true." And that is definitely "denying the Holy Spirit that indwells all true."
I cn’t think of anyone in your group that I would want to call
“instructor” so, no problem.
Your notion of each individual as the pillar and foundation of all truth is chaos, not the Church.
Even the small group on here can’t agree on truth.
****The same people who would condemn liberals for not upholding the original intent of the founders of this country think nothing of placing their eternal future on the accuracy of word of mouth story telling.****
It is a good analogy, but you come to the wrong conclusion.
The founding fathers left us much that explains how and why they came to the list of rights and rules they formulated and codified within the Constitution.
It is the same with the Church and the early fathers who very soon into the second century began to teach what THEY had learned from the Apostles and how and why such things were written.
It was after nearly three centuries before the first attempt to codify the canon of Scripture occurred.
Do you imagine when the bishops came together with the intent to determine canon, they prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit? And perhaps, there was discussion which included some of the writings of those early Christian leaders and how what they said could be used as a benchmark for what was truly inspired Scripture and what was not?
It is ridiculous to suppose that they just came together and went through each of the thousands of writings and said, yes to this one and no to that one. There must have been some criteria which set apart those FEW which were actually chosen from the rest.
I’ll simply refer you to posts 3012 and 3009.
>> Another clanging falsehood.<<
Is water Baptism needed for salvation? How about confession to a priest?
>>>>>>The CC says only it can tell people what is true.<< >>Where do you come up with this stuff? It’s all false. Completely and utterly false.<<
I simply point you to post 3005
Your passage is found on a copyrighted page online, here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4BnmQWtxeAIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
amd here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4BnmQWtxeAIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Which is a website linked to jesus-is-savior.com, a forbidden site by the Religion Mod.
Referring me to your posts as authoritative is not a convincing religious argument for your side. Better luck next time.
Of course. It needed to conform to Old Testament prophesy and totally agree with other parts of scripture and history. If they didn’t completely agree they could not be known to be inspired. That’s’ why many of the Apocryphal books were excluded. They have errors of history for one thing.
THIS IS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT RM. I gave the source, the page numbers, the volume number, the Canon number, the section number. I DID NOT GO TO A WEBSITE TO GET THE INFORMATION. AM I SUPPOSED TO RESEARCH EVERY WEBSITE BEFORE POSTING INFORMATION THAT IS LISTED IN THE RCC CODE OF CANON LAW, OR A CATHOLIC MAGAZINE? I CANNOT GIVE CREDIT TO A WEBSITE THAT I DON’T EVEN KNOW EXISTS. AND IF ONE WEBSITE THAT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT LINKS TO ANOTHER WEBSITE THAT I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, please tell me what I’m to do. I’m not yelling at you, RM, I’m YELLING IN GENERAL at the IMPOSSIBILITY of researching unknown websites so Judith Anne doesn’t come across them when she is seemingly researching forbidden websites. I will do as you say, but I CANNOT RESEARCH SOMETHING THAT I KNOW NOTHING OF.
That’s also one of the criteria for a cult.
Bookmarked for further reading.
When I googled the first line of your quote:
Each individual must receive the faith and law from the Church..with unquestioning submission and obedience of the intellect and the will..We have no right to ask reason of the Church, any more than Almighty God..
Those are the first two sites that came up, a forbidden one, jesus-is-savior.com and the other one, which is copyrighted.
So your yelling excuse is kind of lame...difficult to believe. as it were...
Oh, please.
JA: “Your passage is found on a copyrighted page online, here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4BnmQWtxeAIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
amd here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4BnmQWtxeAIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Which is a website linked to jesus-is-savior.com, a forbidden site by the Religion Mod.”
****************************************************************************
A quick google search of both passages indicates NUMEROUS places where the quotes are found. It’s disingenuous to portray that the information can only be found at a banned website.
Here are other websites there the information can be found.
***********************************************************************
“Each individual must receive the faith and law from the Church..with unquestioning submission and obedience of the intellect and the will.” (etc)
Can be found at the following sites by a google search.
http://www.google.com/search?q=+Each+individual+must+receive+the+faith+and+law+from+the+Church..with+unquestioning+submission+and+obedience+of+the+intellect+and+the+will..&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
A sampling here for this passage and there are far more....
“The Christian faithful, conscious of their own responsibility, are bound by Christian obedience to follow what the sacred pastors, as representatives of Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or determine as leaders of the Church.”
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/liturgical_laws.htm
http://www.st-joseph-foundation.org/cfd17-5.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Canonlaw.html
Well, you better check it out with Judith Anne. You may be accused of going onto forbidden websites, unknown to you, on cults to come up with your criteria...
Thank you for the links, I found them fascinating.
My point regarding Moses and the oral teachings was that Moses did not learn of God and the history of His people for the first time when He was given the Torah.
When God calls him from the bush, Moses knows who God is, he doesn’t need God to explain to him who I AM is. He already knew. He must have known from what had been passed down to him from his ancestors.
I must say, I found especially interesting the parts about the Oral Law. It seems very parallel to the Catholic Sacred Tradition.
The FIRST two? Not the ONLY two?
IOW, there were more.
And how do you know what particular source smvoice used that you can make that accusation?
Nice......
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