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To: CynicalBear

Christ died for my sins, and you know that all Catholics accept that. What you do not perceive, however, is the damage I did to someone else. I must do that reparation too.

I can’t cop out on my responsibilities. Are you responsible for your sins?


73 posted on 10/22/2011 7:30:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Mad Dawg
Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would go with Him into paradise (Sheol).

“And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

After Jesus death and resurrection believers no longer go to the place called Sheol but go immediately to heaven to be with Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The concept of purgatory indicates a debt that needs to be paid. Christ paid that debt. For someone to assume that guilt is to step away from the grace of God.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God imputes righteousness without works.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

We obtain that righteousness while here on earth, not after we die.

Jesus was made sin for us.

77 posted on 10/22/2011 7:38:54 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation
Christ died for my sins, and you know that all Catholics accept that. What you do not perceive, however, is the damage I did to someone else. I must do that reparation too.

I can’t cop out on my responsibilities. Are you responsible for your sins?

Jesus told John to tell you this:

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

105 posted on 10/23/2011 1:38:34 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Salvation; CynicalBear
Christ died for my sins, and you know that all Catholics accept that. What you do not perceive, however, is the damage I did to someone else. I must do that reparation too. I can’t cop out on my responsibilities. Are you responsible for your sins?

The example used several times in this thread about breaking someone's window and having to endure some kind of "temporal" punishment to make "reparations" for that wrong. Has anyone thought that perhaps the reparations God wants us to do when we have wronged someone is for us to make amends TO the person we have wronged? If I sin against another person, God first expects me to confess my sin to him THEN confess and ask forgiveness of the human involved, too. I should - while here on earth alive - try my best to make amends for the wrongs I have committed. But these actions are NOT related to my eternal salvation simply because Jesus paid the penalty of all my sins by his blood.

The whole purpose of reparations, anyway, is to the benefit of both the offender and the offended. The offender knows forgiveness for his wrong acts from the one he wronged and he knows God has forgiven him and fellowship with both is restored. The offended knows that the one who offended admits they're wrong and asks for forgiveness, which he should then grant. All this is and MUST be done at the physical, earthly stage because, once one or the other dies, the purpose of that is over. Many people feel guilt because someone they hurt died and they never went to them to ask for forgiveness. Many people feel bitterness because someone who did them wrong died and never came to them and said they were sorry. The "reparations" whole purpose MUST be on this side of Heaven. It is for both of our benefits but to carry it over into the eternal realm and insist that God expects us to make reparations for some wrong we did without making "good" on it while still alive is both unscriptural and unreasonable. Why even "bother" asking for forgiveness for our wrongs or make it up to someone we hurt, if we can just "take care of it" in Purgatory? Makes no sense. THAT would be "copping out" on my responsibilities. Damage to the "eternal order" of things having to be made right smacks of "karma" and that is NOT what Christ taught.

We only can go to Heaven if our sins have been paid for, and ONLY the blood of Christ pays for sin. No amount of suffering on earth OR in between Heaven and earth could ever be enough. When we die we either go to Heaven or to Hades/Hell. If we are "in Christ" by faith, then we have eternal life with him. No amount of good works or suffering can save us.

182 posted on 10/23/2011 11:41:34 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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