Germany At Odds With Benedict XVI [Instant poll of believers attending his final Mass}

Der Spiegel ^ | September 26th. 2011 | Fiona Ehlers

[Cardhu]

...If one scene could define Benedict's four-day Germany trip, it would be one that took shape on Saturday evening on a field in a Freiburg industrial area. Tens of thousands of young people held an overnight vigil until the big mass the following morning, the last of his trip.

The next morning, before Benedict arrived in his popemobile -- he was racing through Freiburg in a limousine, having just met with former Chancellor Helmut Kohl -- the young believers on the field were getting into the mood, having been given green and red inflatable clap sticks. In the style of a game show, the youths were told to use the different-colored sticks to express their opinions on statements made by two moderators, If they thought the statement was true or "super," they held up the green stick. If they found it false or "not so great," they were to hold up the red stick.

Red for Benedict

The questions in the informal public opinion poll focused on issues that have been on the minds of young believers since well before the sexual abuse scandal rocked the country in early 2010. They were questions on how much trust they retain in their Church and its leaders in Rome.

"I model my life after standards set in Rome," the moderator said. No, the youth answered, holding up their red sticks, with hardly a green stick in sight.

"Confession doesn't play much of a role in my life," came the next statement, answered in the affirmative with a sea of green.

Then: "Women carry too little responsibility in the Church." Yes, unfortunately. Green bags shot up.

"Is the practice of homosexuality a sin?" Of course not. The youths raised their red sticks.

[Cardhu]

"The young people had spoken: lots of red for Benedict, with hardly any green. It was an apt assessment of the 21st papal visit, before it had even come to an end. The Vatican journalists who'd tagged along on the journey seemed stunned. So much openness, discussion and criticism would be unthinkable back in Rome. "

Imagine a real time poll of catholics attending a Papal Mass and the results were totally negative for the Pope

[pogo101]

"Is the practice of homosexuality a sin?" Of course not. The youths raised their red sticks.

This isn't something we vote on, at the ecclesiastical level I mean. What is popular is not always what is right or Catholic. (And that's coming from a non-Catholic.)

[sayuncledave]

A quick search on google shows enough to indicate that Fräulein Ehlers has more than a bit of an agenda when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church. No offense guy, but, meh. Not impressed.

[koraz]

I am not surprised. It shows how poorly parents and the church have been in educating our children on Church doctrine. It would like to see a clear message from our Church leaders that the views they hold are inconsistent with the Church and that they shouldn't be calling themselves Catholics. I am tired of all these cafeteria catholics and would prefer a much smaller Church of true believers.

[Cardhu]

I am sure Fräulein Ehlers made them raise their red sticks too.

[steve86]

would prefer a much smaller Church of true believers

Join our club at Latin Masses!

[sayuncledave]

As I said, meh. It's likely safe to say that poor catechesis exists in Germany to some extent. That would certainly yield the sort of responses given. And the author still has her history. And thus I have my suspicions, validly, regarding her veracity. In this country, those who are poorly catechised would likely give similar, also incorrect, answers. If that were the case, it would reflect a need for greater, as well as more effective, catechesis. It does not say anything else.

[appleharvey]

If you don’t believe in the teachings of your church, leave it. I did that with the Presbyterian Church 39 years ago. I haven’t had one moment of regret.

[BenKenobi]

Fraulein Ehlers thinks that by showing that young people oppose the pope that she can attack the truth of what the pope says.

We don’t all agree with you Fraulein.

Anyways, it would be telling for me.

[BenKenobi]

More work for us Catechists. *sigh*

The work is never done, is it?

[Cicero]

Sorry, but all this article says is that tens of thousands of young protestors turned up to diss the Pope.

How many of these jerks were even Catholic in Name Only? Not very many, I would venture to guess.

[Cardhu]

I wonder what article you read - the word “protestors” or “diss” does not appear anywhere except in your imagination.

[sarasmom]

Why would Protestants attend a Catholic Mass with the Pope presiding?(is presiding correct?)

Just curious, because I would think it a bit odd for non-Catholics to attend such a special event, and quite rude of them to “vote” an opinion of the service, Catholicism, or the Pope at such a venue.
I am not Catholic, but I am aware there are many symbolic rituals associated with Mass. Never having attended catechism, I have no idea what most of them mean.I have attended several Catholic services as an invited guest, and followed a few simple, polite rules for non-Catholics.
1.Be prepared to kneel when everyone else does, or sit way in the back.
2.When in doubt of the proper responce, stay silent.
3.Don't participate in the communion under any circumstances.Even devout Catholics are not required or expected to participate in every communion.It's complicated.

[Cardhu]

Who said they were Protestants?

[sayuncledave]

Quite so, I’m afraid. At least until the Last Day. I admire you. I’m just an amateur.

[markomalley]

One thing really important to consider is the source of this article: Spiegel.

We make a very serious mistake if we rely on media like the New York Times, Newsweek, CNN, or MSNBC for reliable news about religion. These news media simply don’t provide trustworthy information about religious faith—and sometimes they can’t provide it, either because of limited resources or because of their own editorial prejudices. These are secular operations focused on making a profit. They have very little sympathy for the Catholic faith, and quite a lot of aggressive skepticism toward any religious community that claims to preach and teach God’s truth.

Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, Archbishop of Philadelphia

Those words apply particularly with a leftist, secularist rag like Spiegel.

In other words, I would no more believe a critical article out of that rag than I'd believe an article about Sarah Palin written in Newsweek.

[koraz]

In general I agree Mark. It is just that I see so much of this with my family (including a niece that is going to a ‘Catholic’ university) and others around me that call themselves Catholic that I think there is a ring of truth to this. I have also being sorely disappointed by the actions of my alma mater - Notre Dame.

[marshmallow]

Imagine a real time poll of catholics attending a Papal Mass and the results were totally negative for the Pope

I didn't see any questions which related to the Pope. They were all directed at various aspects of Catholic teaching which this Pope didn't invent and certainly won't alter.

Reminds me of religion class silliness back in the crazy '70s when I was in high school.

"Hands up all those who think the Church is wrong about contraception."

"And those who think the Church is right......"

"The 'nos' have it......motion carried".

A group of 16-year olds have spoken! Let that be a lesson to the Church!

This article rises to about the same sophomoric level.

[sarasmom]

Who had to “say” it?

Christians have many denominations.
To imply the “young believers” who camped out overnight in order to “vote against the Pope” were Catholic, or even Christian, is just a little to “cute” .

I am not a member of any organized religious sect.

Protesting anyone or everyone who does not agree with your particular unbelief is pointless, and counterproductive, in the western world.

Pick a sect, or choose none, in the Free world.

Only Islam will murder you for your unbelief.

[BenKenobi]

Thank you for the kindness. Deus Vult!