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Glenn Beck's "pure personal truth," Part 1 [Real Mormonism]
RenewAmerica.com ^ | Sept. 6, 2011 | Marsha West

Posted on 09/06/2011 8:15:09 AM PDT by Colofornian

By Marsha West

Here Glenn Beck goes again, claiming he's a Christian, this time at Restoring Courage 2011 — Jerusalem. Glenn gets upset when anyone questions his Christianity. That's weird because he's a Mormon who affirms the official teaching of Mormonism aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). The LDS outright deny many of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. Moreover, LDS doctrine contradicts what Scripture teaches. So of course there are Christians who feel Beck's not a true follower of Jesus Christ — not the Jesus of the Bible anyway. When his "I'm a Christian" claim is held up to scrutiny Glenn gets his knickers in a knot. At the rally he choked up with emotion and said in an accusatory tone that only Christians question his salvation.

Poor Glenn. He's so misunderstood.

People are wondering, and rightly so, how a Mormon in good standing can also be an evangelical. I mean, Glenn has no plans to leave his church any time soon. Sure, that could change — and hopefully it will. But right now his wagon is hitched to the LDS and he's in it for the long haul.

What many people fail to understand is that Mormonism is a religion. It is not the same religion as Christianity, not even close, yet they say they're Christians. Take the time to study their Doctrine and Covenants and you'll find their beliefs are very different from historic, orthodox Christianity, especially when it comes to the essentials of the faith. Undeniably Mormons have high moral standards as do Christians. Mormons are right up there with evangelicals and Catholics in fighting the culture war. They oppose abortion on demand, same-sex "marriage" and have many of the same cultural concerns as other people of faith do. One thing's for sure: When it comes to fighting the culture war Mormons put their money where their mouth is, whereas a large number of evangelicals and Catholics are more prone to let sleeping dogs lie.

In his article Is Glenn Beck a Christian Matt Slick acquaints us with a few LDS beliefs:

— There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).

— After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354).

— God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321).

— The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35).

— God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22).

— God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)

The Bible does not teach any of this! It's what the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith and Mormon prophets taught. What does Scripture really teach? Matt explains:

Christianity, which is based on the Bible, says there is only one God (Isa. 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5); that God is a Trinity of persons, not three gods; that God has always been God (Psalm 90:2); that God knows of no other gods (Is. 44:8); that you cannot become a god (Isa. 43:10); and that God is spirit (John 4:24). This contradicts Mormonism. Therefore, Mormonism is not biblical, and not Christian. If Glen Beck holds to the teachings listed above, then he is not Christian.

All of this begs the question: Why do evangelical leaders choose to team up with a Mormon? More specifically why did historian David Barton of Wall Builders, Attorney Mat Staver of Liberty Counsel, Mike Evans of Jerusalem Prayer Team, and Pastor John Hagee join Glenn at the Restoring Courage rally?

California megachurch pastor Jim Garlow said, "I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation — persons extremely well known in Christianity — and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), 'Glenn is saved,'" Garlow reported. "He understands receiving Christ as savior." (Online source)

David Barton stunned the audience when he went on Live TV and told host Randy Robison (here) that just because Beck attends a Mormon church "doesn't say anything about his personal relationship with Jesus." Which Jesus? The counterfeit Jesus of Mormonism or the Jesus of the Bible? Barton worries that "a lot of people judge Glenn on the label, he's Mormon." He wants us to ignore the Mormon label, says he doesn't care about the label. The host probed: "You believe he's a Christian in every sense of the word?" Without flinching Barton replied, "I do. I have literally watched him pray and hear from the Lord and turn on a dime." He thinks Glenn is hearing from the God of the Bible...but is he, really?

I have a challenge for David Barton: Read Glenn's book The Seven Wonders That Will Change Your Life co-authored with Dr. Keith Ablow. In the book he lays out his "pure personal truth." (In part 2 I'll shed light on Glenn's view of "truth.")

The Lord Jesus said, "You must be born again" (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8, 1 Peter 1:3) to qualify as a Christian. Muslims do not believe Jesus was God, they believe He was the last prophet sent by God. They respect him as much as they respect Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. Are Muslims Christians? No. New Agers are pantheists. For them God is all, all is God. They hold that "Jesus was a highly evolved man who realized his inner divinity — the Christ Consciousness — demonstrating that all men could achieve this." Are they Christians? No.

I am a woman. I can call myself a man, but my DNA proves otherwise.

Recently Larry Klayman, founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch, wrote an article to show his support for Restoring Courage. "So it came to pass," said Klayman who is an evangelical, "that Glenn pulled off a magnificent spectacle, bringing Christians and Jews from all parts of the globe together to show their courage in supporting Israel." (Online source) Glenn also brought many Mormons. Why did Klayman not mention them? If Beck was a Muslim would he have left that out of his article? No, he wouldn't have. What he probably would have said was, "Glenn pulled off a magnificent spectacle, bringing Muslims, Christians and Jews from all parts of the globe together..." Surely Klayman would have included "Muslim" if a Muslim organized and hosted the rally!

Giving Larry Klayman the benefit of the doubt, he probably thinks Mormons are Christians because they have a habit of saying they are. It doesn't help that Christian luminaries such as Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, Bishop Harry Jackson who presides over one of the largest African American churches on the East coast and Jim Garlow (referred to above) stood with him at his 2010 rally in Washington D.C. and as I mentioned earlier, other noted evangelicals stood with him in Israel. These men don't seem to have a problem with the fact that even though Glenn says he's a Christian he remains a member of the LDS Church. As a matter of fact, the tour company he recommended to those attending his big shindig is owned by Mormons. Jack Kinsella went to the Israel event and claims this is something he concealed. In a piece he wrote Stolen Blessings: The LDS Connection he says LDS Travel is "identical in every respect to Voyager Travel, except that LDS Travel makes it clear that it is a Latter Days Saints Church operation." Jack was irked that sincere Christians that took Glenn's advice to use Voyager Travel inadvertently contributed to the advancement of Mormonism.

After all the brouhaha over whether or not Glenn Beck is a Christian I do hope our Christian leaders, some of whom are clergy, others attorneys, will not just take his word for it. I hope they'll dig deep into LDS doctrine to find out what Mormons believe. The Bible warns:

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1John 4:1)

Believers must test to see if LDS teaching is true or false. For example, do the Latter-day Saints really teach that God has a body of flesh and bones as Matt Slick claimed? Let's visit the LDS Gospel Library Gospel Topics to see if it's true or false:

God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He "has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (D&C 130:22). (Bold added.)

Yep, Matt was right.

No doubt some Beck fans will be annoyed that I'm "attacking" their hero. I hope you're annoyed enough to research Mormonism (links below) and to go and look at Scripture to see if what I'm saying here is true.

I must digress for a moment to explain why I'm writing a piece on Glenn Beck. Some of the subjects I cover in my column are politics, the culture war, and religion which include the cults, the occult, and a potpourri of aberrant movements within Christianity. My aim is to unearth unbiblical teaching and bring it to light. The reason I do it is because there's a stunning lack of discernment in Christendom that I find deeply troubling.

For many years I was one of those Christians who blazed my own trail. My belief system was decidedly New Age but I called myself a Christian nonetheless. My worldview was anything but Christian, I was a New Age/gnostic/mystic/mess. I professed Christ, yet I rarely read the Bible and when I did I'd find fault in most of what I read. When my Christian mother challenged me on my goofy beliefs I'd snap back, "You believe what you want I'll believe what I want!" And I believed what I wanted for decades! I won't go into all that was wrong with my beliefs now. I'll just say that I was a very eclectic "Christian." And that's mainly because I was influenced by my friends, most of whom were not Christians, and also by the postmodern culture I grew up in. My mother's death and a nasty divorce were the two events that caused me to reassess my life.

That's a whole other subject, so I'll move on.

Providentially God put me in a job where I met and became friends with true believers. My new friends challenged my esoteric beliefs and urged me to read the works of conservative Christian theologians, philosophers and apologists. They also urged me to find a church, read the Bible and get involved in a Bible study. I took their advice.

Realizing its serious business to be a follower of Jesus Christ, I spent most of my free time trying to sort out what I believed and why I believed it. One of the first books I read was Ray C. Stedman's Authentic Christianity. What an eye-opener that was! Then I moved on to John White's The Cost of Commitment and other books by White. But the book that shook me to my core was R.C. Sproul's The Holiness of God. I highly recommend it.

I also read books on the New Age movement (NAM) written by Christian authors who warned of its dangers. I devoured Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin. There's no doubt reading his books and listening to his audio tapes gave me insight into the cults and the occult.

So, why am I sharing my personal journey? I want readers to know where I'm coming from and why I'm committed to exposing false teachers. When I bring to light false teaching/ teachers/ preachers/church leaders, what Jesus called "ravenous wolves," I do it for one simple reason: Wolves influenced my thinking for many years and the unbiblical beliefs I held prevented me from maturing in my faith.

One of my HUGE regrets is that I influenced those around me with all the New Age/gnostic/pagan/psychobabble I was into. I mean, why not? The beliefs I latched onto seemed right for everyone! (Sounds like Oprah, doesn't it?) In < a href="http://www.emailbrigade.com/331.html">The Purpose Driven dismantling of Christianity, part 1 I call this sort of Christianity "syncretism stew," which is Christianity plus... paganism...mysticism... new revelation...signs & wonders...Jungian psychology...man-centered self-esteem... Twelve-steps...universalism (all roads lead to God)... and, thanks to Rick Warren, global peace. This concoction may sound nourishing, but it causes spiritual malnutrition!

Those who believe God enlightens some and not others and that they have some sort of secret knowledge have been drawn into the heresy that the early church faced and defeated, namely gnosticism. Once again the Gnostic Gospel has reared its ugly head.

Christianity never has been nor is it now meant to be some sort of esoteric experience. And besides, going down that road leads to spiritual pride. Authentic Christianity entails a daily walk with the Lord Jesus Christ and obedience to his commands. (John 14:15) It is that simple. The only way we can truly know God is through what He has revealed to us in the Bible. If the Bible is not true, if it is just a book of myths and fables as some say it is, if it's not the way God reveals who He is and His ways to us anyone can claim to have the indisputable truth about God.

Stay tuned for Part 2 ... You'll discover Glenn Beck's "pure persona truth."

Recommended Reading:

Beliefs and practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — Wikipedia

The "God" of Glenn Beck — By Ken Silva

How to be right with God — "What must I do to be saved?" — By David Wheaton

Audio:

Evangelicals and Glenn Beck's New Age Mormonism — VCY America radio broadcast hosted by Brannon Howse, 2/28/11

Video:

Glenn Beck's (ecumenical) "Restoring Courage" speech from Israel

Mormon Beliefs:

Quote from LDS.org: And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God [LDS], and the other is the church of the devil [Christendom]; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. 1 Nephi, 14:10 Book of Mormon

Quote from LDS.org: LDS Church President Lorenzo Snow expressed the nature of the Father in his couplet, "As man is, God once was — and as God is, man may become."

Salvation:

[A]s the Agent of the Father and Judge of all, Christ is able to be both merciful and just (John 5:22; Romans 2:16). To obtain His mercy, or be saved from His wrath, or indigation [sic], on the day of judgment, men and women must (1) have faith in Christ, (2) repent of their sins, (3) be baptized by one of His authorized agents in water in the likeness of His burial, to come forth born again of the Spirit, (4) receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, again by an authorized servant of God bearing His priesthood, and (5) endure in faith in Christ and repentance from sins to the end of their mortal lives. (Online Source)

After Death:

The nature of that body...will depend on the result of the Last Judgment, at which Jesus will assign each soul to one of three degrees of glory (heavenly kingdoms): the celestial kingdom in the presence of the Father and the Son for those who accept Jesus Christ and receive all LDS saving ordinances, either as a mortal or by proxy; the terrestrial kingdom, a place of glory in the presence of Christ for righteous persons who refuse to receive the saving ordinances and for those who do not keep the covenants they commit to; and the telestial kingdom for the wicked. A further destination, called outer darkness, is reserved for Satan, his devils, and those mortals who commit the unpardonable sin and thereby become the sons of perdition.[61] Those who are ultimately destined for the telestial kingdom will be those who suffer for their sins in hell; however, these persons remain in hell only the 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ, after which they will exit hell and be resurrected with an immortal body into a state of peace. (Online Source)

© Marsha West


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: beck; christianity; glennbeck; harryreid; huntsman; inman; jonhuntsman; josephsmith; lds; marshawest; mittromney; mormon; mormonism; mormons; polygamy; reid; restoringcourage; romney; smith; west
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To: Colofornian

Rather than debate Truth: Christianity vrs. Mormonism, simply listen to Glenn Beck”s own words. Over time he has nice things to say about almost any religeon except Islam.
He is a religeous chamelion who picks and chooses what he believes at the moment.
For me, it’s like the pathological liar. How do you know when that person is who they really are?
I prefer the man who is outspoken and steadfast in what he believes even if I don’t agree with him.


61 posted on 09/06/2011 9:01:22 AM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: Turtlepower
Like I said, I wasn't interested in what some people say that Mormons believe. I asked a lot of Mormons the question..."Whence cometh your salvation?" and the answer, several times, lined up with "Belief in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as expiation for our sins."

And then they decked that in a lot of nonsense, but the core remains.

So, if you want to know how a Mormon is "saved"--ask some Mormons

I have all kinds of problems with Roman Catholicism practice not matching up with scripture, but when I ask a Catholic "whence cometh your salvation" I get a similar response to the above.

And people who spend a lot of time hating on a denomination that is non-violent and patriotic...well, why not go after someone else? Religious practices are inexplicable. Look to their works to see.

62 posted on 09/06/2011 9:02:21 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Colofornian

I think Beck is a Christian and also believe he does not understand Mormon theology; and and the Mormon leadership are in no hurry to educate him on it. If they did, he wouldn’t remain a member for long.


63 posted on 09/06/2011 9:03:10 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: Colofornian

I have nothing against scripture as written in printed versions of the Bible. In fact I spend much time using a Strongs Concordance, and “The Companion Bible” and believe it is an honest attempt to collate writings that are divinely inspired. There are actually some Bibles that are incorrect in translations, do you believe that people getting information from them are non-Christians? The point is, faith is unproven by writings. The writings only serve to inform and strengthen faith, not prove it. Just because the words put together are the ones I believe are most correct, does not mean they are the only ones that are so. If I am wrong in my belief, and impose it or teach it to another, I am responsible for his error. I will not take that burden on. An honest attempt to inform Mr. Beck, or any other man one to one is fair game. Commenting about it in a way in which he cannot defend himself, is not. Glenn Beck will be judged by his life and faith, as will you and I.


64 posted on 09/06/2011 9:05:30 AM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: Mamzelle

Beck became a Christian prior to joining the Mormon church.

Anyone who still thinks most Baptists are tea-totalling is out of touch.


66 posted on 09/06/2011 9:07:48 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: Turtlepower

It is not an attack on Mormonism that I object to. It is an attack on a man that believes in Mormonism. Throw out the personal, and discuss doctrine in a “clean” manner. I will join in gladly.


67 posted on 09/06/2011 9:07:51 AM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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To: MHGinTN
I find your dismissive self-righteousness not meek or mild at all, so I guess there's enough error to go around. I'd suggest a few Beatitudes, but you can find them if you want them.

I usually avoid FR religion threads for this very reason. I very quickly find hostile cranks and rants and un-gentle behavior. But Beck's name in the title brought me in. He's done more good than a boat-load of Pharisees.

Peace. I'm outta here.

68 posted on 09/06/2011 9:08:53 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle

You spittle forth error then tell us you haven’t time to waste with accuracy. And you have the gall to call those opposing the false religion called Mormonism, Pharisees? Read the seventh chapter of Matthew. Jesus was teaching and is still teaching, and you can learn it directly from Him by reading His words as recorded in Matthew 7, instead of continuing to twist what He said to fit your agenda or salve your ignorance.


69 posted on 09/06/2011 9:17:34 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: dila813; Mamzelle; svcw; MHGinTN
Christian = means belief in Christ — It is absolutely clear that Glen Beck believes in Christ. Anyone who tries to define it otherwise is evil themselves.

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24 that false messiahs would appear in the end times. You could try the same approach as above...give a dictionary-type definition of "Messiah." and then claim that all who believe in "Messiah" = "Christians." Your problem would then come when you've got believers who believe in the false Messiahs Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 24.

So, they'll, too, be all "Christians."

(I'm afraid you'll flunk consistent logic on that one).

70 posted on 09/06/2011 9:18:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: dila813; Mamzelle; svcw; MHGinTN
Christian = means belief in Christ — It is absolutely clear that Glen Beck believes in Christ Anyone who tries to define it otherwise is evil themselves. You are either with God or against him You have declared by your attempt to redefine this word as against him and are partners with the deceiver.

Even the apostle Paul said there was "another Jesus" in the day of Church of Corinth.

Distinctions between the Mormon Jesus and the historical Jesus of the Bible:

Q1 Isn't the first distinct focus on the Mormon "Jesus" was that he was some unembodied vague "intelligence" even before the Mormon claim that Jesus, like Superman, had parents from another planet?

A Yes. Lds "scriptures" Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33 assign ALL of us eternal status as past-tense intelligences. (So we're ALL supposedly as "eternal" as Jesus is)

Q2 Well about what about once the Mormon "Jesus" got to the spirit baby stage? Comparing so-called "spirit babies" born to a mom goddess in heaven, what difference was there between the "Jesus spirit baby" and the supposed rest of us "spirit babies" born to such a mom goddess?

A Mere spiritual birth order--The Mormon Jesus supposedly having been birth first in some "pre-existent world"

Q3 What about the Earthly Origins of the Mormon Christ?

A * Place of birth: Jerusalem (vs. Bible pinpointing it as Bethlehem).
* The Mormon Jesus was twice made a son of God via Mary 'cause Lds say Heavenly Father was the literal paternal father of the conceived Jesus;
* The Mormon Jesus only became God's "only begotten Son" upon conception within Mary. Not so: Jesus, as the Son of God from eternity (John 17:5) -- having shared God's glory before the world was -- is God's one and only Son (John 3:18)...the rest of us are mere "adopted" sons -- if we are indeed His.

Q4 Is the Mormon "Jesus" an exalted spirit baby-become-god?

A As noted above, the lds jesus is not the Son of God from eternity past. That "jesus" worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucifer. Had you or your brother been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, he could have been Christ!!!

This "jesus" is foreign to the Bible. The Messiah of the Bible shared the glory with the Father in the beginning (John 17:5). This Jesus is THE Son of God, not just a son of God. And THE Son of God did not consider equality with His Father something he couldn't let go of while becoming a man (see Philippians 2). Phil. 2 makes it clear He was already divine, not just a "wannabe" God like Dear Ole Dad.

Q5 Is the True Jesus Christ a 'Saved Being'?

A In contrast to the Mormon christ -- who is but a "saved being"--a mere creature like dear ole Dad, the true Jesus Christ is eternal!

The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)

“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)

Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72

I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).

Q6 Is the Mormon christ just one savior among many?

Yes. Admittedly this is currently publicly downplayed -- but to Lds directly -- baptism of/for the dead has been played up by Lds "prophets" from Joseph Smith to Joseph Fielding Smith to others as THE most important individual responsibility there is -- wrapping that responsibility up in their own works-driven salvation:

Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith: “But greater than all this, so far as our individual responsibilities are concerned, the greatest is to become SAVIORS, in our lesser degree which is assigned us, for the dead who have died without a knowledge of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said, ‘The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us, is to seek after our dead’…It will suffice here to say that the Lord has placed upon us this responsibility of seeing that our dead receive the blessings of the Gospel. Said Joseph Smith: ‘Those saints who neglect it, in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.’” (The Way to Perfection, pp. 153-154)

Lds "prophet" John Taylor: ...we are the only people that know how to SAVE our progenitors, how to SAVE OURSELVES, and how to SAVE our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).

Joseph Fielding Smith again: "... mortals have to BE SAVIORS on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (The Way to Perfection, p. 325)

Taylor again: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to BE SAVIORS FOR THEM by being baptized for them in the flesh,, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)

No, "saviors of the world" are NOT plentiful per the Bible (see 1 John 4:14; John 4:42).

Q7 How were our sins atoned for? By sweating blood in the Garden of Gethsemane?

A Lds leaders have constantly de-emphasized the cross of Christ by pointing to the garden, where Jesus sweat blood, as the place of atonement.

Q8 Did the Mormon "jesus" really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature?

A No, if you take merely the Mormon Articles of Faith -- Article #2.

Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church:

From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)

The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."]

The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."

Also, the Mormon leaders accuse Jesus of having rather anemic blood:

"Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135)

"Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93).

So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism.

Q9 Was the Mormon Jesus a creature before He was a 'Creator'?

A Yes. The Bible assigns Jesus as being the Creator of All Things & All Beings -- whereas the Mormon "Jesus" is Simply a spirit Creature offspring of Kolobian parents.

Compare that to the Jesus of the Bible Who created ALL things--including all angels...including even Lucifer (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10).

Lds general authority Milton Hunter claimed: "Jesus became a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages,

Q10 Why do Mormons downplay the uniqueness of Jesus?

A Because of their unique doctrine that
(a) we were all eternal;
(b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus;
(c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation";
(d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people;
(e) all temple Mormons become gods.
(f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship.

The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)

Q11 Do Mormons worship Jesus?
A It depends upon which Mormon and which Mormon leaders you talk to. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie advised Lds STRONGLY in 1982 to not worship Jesus.

McConkie must have seized upon the Mormon "scripture" of D&C 20:17-19 as the key verse that would “guide” his pattern of worship once & for all: and that he should be the ONLY BEING whom they should worship ... as he quoted it to BYU students. (See Our relationship with the Lord)

Christians worship this Messiah, just like God told the angels to do in Hebrews 1:6. And I challenge grassroots Mormons to defy their leaders -- like Lds "apostle" McConkie when they tell them NOT to directly worship Jesus (see Mormon 7:7; 2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10).

I DIRECTLY pray to this Jesus as Stephen did in Acts (7:59) -- and even as the supposed Book of Mormon disciple characters DIRECTLY and repeatedly did to Jesus in 3 Nephi 19: 6-26...again -- a Mormon "scripture" de-emphasized & ignored by Mormon leaders).

Q12 If Mormons do worship Jesus -- and if they deem Jesus a "separate" god than Heavenly Father, doesn't that mean they worship more than one god?

A Yes.

To show you the extent of confusion this has caused even among Mormon leaders, look at "apostle" McConkie's book, Mormon Doctrine:

"Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)

Q13 Wait a minute. Didn't you just get done telling us that McConkie advised BYU students NOT to worship Jesus in 1982?

A Indeed, he did, after saying the above in 1966! But McConkie was so confused, he would say "3" then "2" in the same book...and then eventually settled on "1" by 1982!

McConkie, on p. 848 of Mormon Doctrine, emphasized worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).

Q14 Doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict even the two-god worship theory of McConkie's?

A Yes. Mormon 7:7 reads: 7And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the bworld, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to ddwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

So you can see how confusing this gets...trinitarian theology is found frequently in the Book of Mormon...including worshiping the Holy Spirit!

Q15 Doesn't it all boil down to how many gods you worship?

A Yes.

Thomas calls Jesus his God in John 20:28; even the Joseph Smith's concocted "Nephite disciples" called Jesus “their Lord and God” (3 Nephi 19:18).

And look @ what other Mormon "scriptures" say:
* The D&C says Jesus is God (19:4; 62:1; etc.) Since there’s only one true God in the bible and in the LDS scriptures [for example, the Mormon "scripture" from the Pearl of Great Price says "no God besides me" (1:6)]
* All this means is that either Jesus is a false god or is the one true God. As Jesus Christ is a God to Thomas (John 20:28) -- so Thomas has two gods?

I testify Jesus Christ is my only Lord, my Savior, my God! He is the Only Lord, the Only Savior, the Only True God!

71 posted on 09/06/2011 9:22:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Now you have hurt my feelings!


72 posted on 09/06/2011 9:22:39 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where INVITED Freepers will meet again next summer. Jim Robinson Too)
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To: Mamzelle
What makes a Christian has to do with Jesus Christ and belief in his saving grace.

You are correct.

mormonISM does not teach or believe in the Biblical Jesus, they teach and believe in a created being.

mormonISM does not teach or believe in Biblical Grace, they teach and believe in works. In their articles of faith, the say We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. IE works not Grace

As far as alcohol, huh? Even Jesus drank wine.

Charities, sure but they require that you pay them back (hardly charity) and they give to members.

Beck I don't know what good works you are talking about. I used to listen to him, thought he was great informative and very funny. Something happened to him a few years ago and he became shrill and annoying. His radio show was better a few years longer but now is the same as his former TV show. He is interjecting mormonISM into most of what he does now.

73 posted on 09/06/2011 9:23:50 AM PDT by svcw (iphone 5 release date late October - rats)
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To: Colofornian
You are shifting, the definition when it is clear and absolute It isn't Messiah, it is Jesus Christ Definitions again: mes·si·ahNoun/məˈsīə/ 1. The promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. 2. Jesus, regarded by Christians as the Messiah of the Hebrew prophecies and the savior of humankind. I must have missed where Glen Beck has declared himself the Messiah.
74 posted on 09/06/2011 9:24:23 AM PDT by dila813
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To: Tax Government; reaganaut

You’ll see here where one of them slipped up and revealed his/her “religion”.

I find it quite amusing where one cult is accusing another of being the same.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2763505/posts


75 posted on 09/06/2011 9:25:17 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: runninglips
Glenn Beck will be judged by his life and faith, as will you and I.

Indeed. Yet the primary judgment has already occurred.

You either already have eternal life -- or you don't -- and is something jumpstarted before one dies. [IOW, eternal life doesn't start in heaven; it begins here...Jesus said as much in places like John 3:36 and John 5:24...and John thereby later said we can be sure about eternal life -- see 1 John 5:10-13].

Just as Jesus says we HAVE eternal life -- present tense -- likewise the apostle Paul says we HAVE peace with God already through Jesus Christ:

25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we HAVE peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ... (Romans 4:25-5:1)

You see, the PRIMARY judgment of our sin was already done on the cross -- that we access through faith delivered by grace (God's gifts).

Jesus highlighted this two verses after the famous John 3:16 verse:

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

The problem is that Mormons like Beck believe that God the Father had many spirit sons beyond Jesus...Lucifer...you...me...all people on earth. And that Jesus is just our elder brother. Hardly a "one and only Son."

The Bible talks about us as being adopted children of God...not sons & daughters who shared glory with all pre-creation.

77 posted on 09/06/2011 9:35:48 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Get a life - all of you. On both sides of this issue.

Concentrate on your own faith walk - and that reminds me - get off your fat butt and go for a walk - you’ll feel better. And while you’re walking, chant this out loud: “ANY pubbie is better for the country than O’Bama. ANY.”


78 posted on 09/06/2011 9:36:54 AM PDT by QBFimi (When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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To: QBFimi

How about you don’t like the discussion get out of the religion forum.


79 posted on 09/06/2011 9:40:29 AM PDT by svcw (iphone 5 release date late October - rats)
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To: dila813
Why don’t you ask him instead of refusing

Beck's testimony is already distributed by Deseret Book Co. (owned by Mormon church) & they bill it as a "missionary tool"...

He already promotes the Mormon church...the Mormon "gospel"...etc...

Otherwise, it's a good suggestion...but I haven't heard him back off his Deseret ties, etc....nor promotion of the Mormon church.

80 posted on 09/06/2011 9:41:39 AM PDT by Colofornian
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