Glenn Beck's "pure personal truth," Part 1 [Real Mormonism]

RenewAmerica.com ^ | Sept. 6, 2011 | Marsha West

[Elsie]

We already know that SLC and islam partner together quite frequently, probably because Joseph Smith said he would be the next mohammad.

You HATEful, bigoted, judgemental vemon spitter you!!

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“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

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[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

 

[dila813]

Look up the definition for Christian again ...

If everyone makes up their own definitions our conversation has no meaning, you might as well be shouting in an Ocean Breeze.

I am sure there is a church somewhere that defines Christian as a belief in Jesus Christ being genetically cloned from Adam ... make our own definitions, but that doesn’t make them effective for everyone else ...

[Elsie]

Standards are slipping, I suppose.

Hey!

Mods got a life, too!

It could be easily missed.

[Elsie]

Glad I don’t go to your Church...

Does yours have altar calls?

[dila813]

Those are society rules not religious ones, don’t confuse the two. These rules may be based in a religious tradition but it doesn’t have to follow all religious traditions.

All societies must have rules ... by your same logic, when the state legalizes marriage between gay people, that would change your faith

I don’t think anyone would agree to that.

I don’t think Marriage between the same sex should be allowed except for hermaphrodites that have a defined medical issue. In those cases, a hermaphrodite should be able to go to a judge and have his/her sex declared.

[dila813]

And that is an absolutely deplorable behavior and should be condemned loudly.

In some church’s, mind you, there are sometimes courts ran by the elders of the church. But for you to go to it, you have to have done something to offend the faith while being subject to its authority. (you are a member of the Church)

[dila813]

Where is the person’s name he condemns?

He is talking about a group, please notice he says observe what they say but don’t follow what they do.

If these men were being totally condemned, Jesus wouldn’t ask the crowd to continue to follow what they say.

It helps to read the entire Chapter to understand the context.

[dila813]

I judge their behavior, they worship false idols

I listen to Saint John of Damascus on this matter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Damascus

Please notice that he served as a Chief Administrator to the Muslim caliph of Damascus while at the same time writing the must critical work of Mohammad of all time.

In side the church, to guided the flock pointing out the behavior and identifying the truth of what happened in the founding of the Muslim Faith.

If this document had been discovered outside the church, his head would not be long on his shoulders.

I think all would learn a lot from study of John’s Life.

[dila813]

Communion is the equivalent in the Roman Catholic Church, it is where you take the Body in Christ into you to live in you, now and forever to the day you die and move on to serve the Lord our God for all Eternity.

[dila813]

I judge the behavior, not the person.

Actually Matt 23 is very good for this case. Jesus called us to listen to them but not do as they do. So if I was Pentecostal, I would have ignored him as Jesus asked me to.

I wasn’t Pentecostal anyways, so I wasn’t subject to their authority, I was there at someone’s request.

This would actually fall into the false preachers as well because he presents himself in that role vs Glen who I am unaware of casting himself in that role.

[svcw]

This really as an “oh wow”. place marker

[dila813]

It is clear the article is an attack on someone.

Just as the author wrote an article attacking other evangelicals besides Mormons.

She attacked Baptists and others.

She isn’t a one trick hater.

[Freedom56v2]

HuH?!?!

[reaganaut]

I had to do some research to find out what you were talking about. Not sure how I missed it but your post is the funniest thing I have seen on FR in a very long time.

My original post #13:

My religion IS Christianity. Nothing else. I don’t believe in denominational membership. I am a member of the Body of Christ, the Church Universal.

Telling the truth about Mormonism, that they themselves won’t tell, isn’t ‘bashing’, it is informing.

I have never said Mormons don’t have a right to practice their religion, but I also have a right to speak out against it. The first amendment doesn’t mean that they are free to practice without criticism. I am much more ‘pro-American’ than most LDS are.

I find it amusing that you ask questions, and then demand I don’t answer. You can’t have it both ways.

Your idiotic response #18):http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2763505/posts?page=18#18

To: reaganaut

I swore I wouldn’t respond, but I just can’t help to do so after doing a search about your so-called “church”.

I used the keywords that you gave me “Body of Christ, the Church Universal” + “cult”.

Everyone that has aligned themselves with you should check this out: http://www.neirr.org/AttleboroHistoryNew.htm

“Two years ago we received a call one afternoon from a very distraught woman. With great concern and distress in her voice, she explained that her nieces and nephews were in a shopping mall parking lot up in Maine. They were with this strange religious group that her brother was a member of. They had no food or gas, and “were just waiting on God.”

“They had also been in this condition for days, and she was deeply concerned that something was going to happen to the children. The caller was the sister of one of the members of “The Body of Christ” (as they referred to themselves), and that was our first introduction to this group that resided in Attleboro, Massachusetts.”

It gets way better at the link....(starving babies, murder charges, ect.)

reagan-NOT, your “religion” is a BIG-TIME CULT, my friend.

Methinks you have been exposed.

18 posted on 08/14/2011 3:44:22 PM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

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Only a cultist would respond that way. Only a cultist would have no idea what the “Body of Christ” and the “Church Universal” is and think it is a ‘religion’ or a denomination.

I have over the years attended various churches and denominations, my last church was a Calvary Chapel so not even close to Attleboro (which I had never even heard of).

Methinks YOU have been exposed as someone who has no clue about Christianity.

Thanks for the laugh though, seriously your response was really funny.

[dila813]

I am unaware where Glen Beck has declared himself Prophet, Teacher, or what ever

This article didn’t even talk about this and this was only brought up when I pointed out flaws with this personal attack.

[reaganaut]

Most of what I heard was in line with the Apostle’s Creed.

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Did it ever occur to you they were either lying or defining words differently, because they are.

I also lived in Utah and was LDS, we were taught to lie to outsiders to sound more ‘mainstream’ all the while laughing at them that WE (LDS) had the truth and Christians were stupid.

[dila813]

“havent reads”

Yeah, ok, judging me again

Not only have I read the Bible in several formats I have read the writings of Saints that actually lived and worked in Muslim States.

Christians Learned early on, render to Caesar what is Caesar, render to God what is God.

Your attitude would have instantly had your head separated from your body in the early Church.

[reaganaut]

And so, I applaud Mormonism.

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Then you are not a Christian. Sorry but there is NOTHING good in Mormonism. Been there done that read the Book (of Mormon), saw the (Endowment) movie, wore the holy underwear. Then God opened my eyes and I got the Hell out of it.

[reaganaut]

Christian = means belief in Christ — It is absolutely clear that Glen Beck believes in Christ

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He believes in a FALSE Christ. Want examples?

[reaganaut]

ping to #314