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To: Elsie; Iscool
The way I read the Book; there ain't NOBODY nowhere yet! What do we need a RAPTURE for and a final JUDGEment for if it's a done deal already?

So where do you think Jesus placed all those Old Testament saints when he "led captivity captive" at his resurrection? All those who have died under grace are with him in Heaven right now. Paul said, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." (I Cor. 5:8) The reason for the "Rapture" is the Bride of Christ (the church) is taken up out of the wrath of the Tribulation - the "Time of Jacob's Trouble". Those who are in Christ, by grace through faith, and who are alive when he comes will, with the bodies of the glorified saints, rise up to meet him in the air, given glorified bodies and so we shall ever be with the Lord. (I Thess. 4:13-18.

So you ask what need there is in a Rapture or a Final Judgment? The answer is that those who are saved have been judged already and, because we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ through his blood, we are glorified with those that have already "fallen asleep" in Christ. Those who are NOT in Christ, will face the Final Judgment and are already standing condemned because they did not believe in Christ (John 3:18)

4,419 posted on 09/20/2011 11:03:05 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.)
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To: boatbums
Paul said, "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." (I Cor. 5:8)

No, he didn't:

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

4,434 posted on 09/21/2011 5:02:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: boatbums
Those who are NOT in Christ, will face the Final Judgment and are already standing condemned because they did not believe in Christ

Not according to the Book:

Revelation 20:11-15

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.


4,435 posted on 09/21/2011 5:06:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: boatbums
Those who are NOT in Christ, will face the Final Judgment and are already standing condemned because they did not believe in Christ

Not according to the Book:

Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


4,437 posted on 09/21/2011 5:08:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: boatbums
Those who are NOT in Christ, will face the Final Judgment and are already standing condemned because they did not believe in Christ

Not according to the Book:

1 Thessalonians 4

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.


4,439 posted on 09/21/2011 5:11:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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