My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

"If you had said...."

Res ipsa loquitur.

Article 4,Question 76,Tertia Pars, Summa Theologiae:

"Hence it remains that Christ's body is not in this sacrament as in a place, ..."

"Hence in no way is Christ's body locally in this sacrament. "

Therefore to adore Christ sacramentally is in no way saying,"Lo, here is Christ,..."

Therefore your remark is irrelevant.

Yea, us little o dummies don't know nuthin'... From your link:

On the contrary, The place and the object placed must be equal, as is clear from the Philosopher (Phys. iv). But the place, where this sacrament is, is much less than the body of Christ. Therefore Christ's body is not in this sacrament as in a place.

I answer that, As stated above (1, ad 3; 3), Christ's body is in this sacrament not after the proper manner of dimensive quantity, but rather after the manner of substance. But every body occupying a place is in the place according to the manner of dimensive quantity, namely, inasmuch as it is commensurate with the place according to its dimensive quantity. Hence it remains that Christ's body is not in this sacrament as in a place, but after the manner of substance, that is to say, in that way in which substance is contained by dimensions; because the substance of Christ's body succeeds the substance of bread in this sacrament: hence as the substance of bread was not locally under its dimensions, but after the manner of substance, so neither is the substance of Christ's body. Nevertheless the substance of Christ's body is not the subject of those dimensions, as was the substance of the bread: and therefore the substance of the bread was there locally by reason of its dimensions, because it was compared with that place through the medium of its own dimensions; but the substance of Christ's body is compared with that place through the medium of foreign dimensions, so that, on the contrary, the proper dimensions of Christ's body are compared with that place through the medium of substance; which is contrary to the notion of a located body.

What a heap of verbal gymnastics...And then you tell each other that you are in the real presence of Christ, but then you're not really...The guy holds up the monstrance so you guys can worship the cracker which is Christ but actually you guys worship the 'substance'...

I'll bet there's not one out of a thousand Catholics who have ever heard what this PHILOSOPHER claims about your Eucharist...A pagan philosopher writes a thesis on a completely unbiblical tenet of your 'not of the bible' tradition and you then claim it is disqualified from being the object of the verses I posted...

Your problem is that the scripture didn't specify whether it was the 'physical Christ' or 'Christ the substance' that was to be rejected...

Jesus just said that if someone says that Christ is here, or Christ is there, or you have Christ locked away in a closet between Masses, dump that religion as fast as you can because they are lying...

On the contrary, The place and the object placed must be equal, as is clear from the Philosopher (Phys. iv). But the place, where this sacrament is, is much less than the body of Christ. Therefore Christ's body is not in this sacrament as in a place.

Oh Brother...The place and the object must be equal...Who says??? A philosopher...

And that's your religion...

God is my co-pilot." Later somebody produced a sticker saying, "God's the pilot. I'm just the co-pilot."

It has also been changed since:

"God is the pilot, I am not the co-pilot, I am the passenger."

No! Not any black cat. Lol! There is something with occultic people who have black cats. Very funny with the black cat taking out the garbage. You would proably love to have your cats take out the garbage. Lol!!

Where I use to live there was some open new age types. Sometimes things where uncanny after certain prayers. Keep your sense of humor!

>>And it was Paul who asked that the collections be taken on Sunday so they would be ready when he came.<<

Those “collections” were not just money but food as well. It was for the sustenance of the Apostles. It involved work gathering all the food stuffs. That was one of the reason for the Sunday day. Saturday was the Sabbath and work was discouraged or even forbidden in some circles still. The “first day” gatherings were more for that reason then any other.

>>As I said, we are a long way from that seedling, the early church of just thousands.<<

Therein lies much of the problem we see with the RCC. It has strayed far. Among the straying and “extra Biblical” problems we see is the assumption of Mary and her veneration and the praying to those who have passed rather then relying on Christ’s words that “not one goes to the Father but through Him”. Those two doctrines, among others, can not be justified by scripture and are actually contrary to scripture.

>>Ah, not sure if I want to discuss Revelation anymore, ha ha.<<

LOL I don’t blame you. To understand Revelation takes a lot of going back through scripture and is a rather intense study. And don’t forget that the understanding of both Daniels prophecy and Revelation were “shut up” or not to be really understood full until the “day of the Lord” was close. The reestablishment of the nation of Israel was a key turning point that opened up an avenue of understanding.

>>It may surprise you to know that the Church offers very little in the way of Catholic theology on Revelations.<<

I believe the RCC believes that the church has replace Israel in God’s promises. That would make it impossible to understand Revelation.

>>The woman in 12, the church says could be Israel, or the church or the Virgin Mary as all three have parallel attributes and sufferings. It makes no binding declaration regarding it.<<

There again, if they believe the church has replaced Israel it’s impossible to understand.

But, we do not say a plane has two co-pilots, but one pilot and one co-pilot. There the co-pilot is understood to be inferior.

But either one can and does fly the plane...And in reality, the Co-pilot has responsibilities that are just as important as the pilot's...

Otherwise they'd be called the main pilot and the lesser pilot... But alas, they are, co-pilots...

Lol!!

m> The Harold Camping error is due to replacement theology.
Uri'el> Wasn't that started by the Roman "church" at Nicea ?
By Martin Luther during the Reformation.

Now, as to who started Judaizing, who do you look to as a leader?

Replacement theology began at Nicea in 325CE
when the Roman Pontiff, Constantine blamed
the Jews for the death of Yah'shua.
Anti-semitism is concomitant with replacement theology.
Yes; Martin Luther was deeply anti-Semitic as an
RCC Priest that is expected, as it has been deeply embedded
in the Roman "church" for centuries.

ON THE KEEPING OF EASTER.(The Pagan feast of easter)
From the Letter of the Emperor to all those not present at the Council.
(Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18-20.)

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was
universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the
feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable,
than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of
immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same
manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the
holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom [the calculation] of the
Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and
whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we may
transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter,
which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the
present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not,
therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour
has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and
more convenient course(the order of the days of the week); and
consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest
brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the
Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without
their direction we could not keep this feast. How can they be in the
right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led
by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them? They
do not possess the truth in this Easter question; for, in their blindness
and repugnance to all improvements, they frequently celebrate two
passovers in the same year. We could not imitate those who are openly
in error. How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most
certainly blinded by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one
year is totally inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still
be your duty not to tarnish your soul by communications with such
wicked people[the Jews]. Besides, consider well, that in such an
important matter, and on a subject of such great solemnity, there ought
not to be any division. Our Saviour has left us only one festal day of
our redemption, that is to say, of his holy passion, and he desired[to
establish] only one Catholic Church. Think, then, how unseemly it is,
that on the same day some should be fasting whilst others are seated
at a banquet; and that after Easter, some should be rejoicing at feasts,
whilst others are still observing a strict fast. For this reason, a Divine
Providence wills that this custom should be rectified and regulated in a
uniform way; and everyone, I hope, will agree upon this point. As, on
the one hand, it is our duty not to have anything in common with the
murderers of our Lord; and as, on the other, the custom now followed
by the Churches of the West, of the South, and of
the North, and by some of those of the East, is the most acceptable, it
has appeared good to all; and I have been guarantee for your consent,
that you would accept it with joy, as it is followed at Rome, in Africa,
in all Italy, Egypt, Spain, Gaul, Britain, Libya, in all Achaia, and in the
dioceses of Asia, of Pontus, and Cilicia. You should consider not only
that the number of churches in these provinces make a majority, but
also that it is right to demand what our reason approves, and that we
should have nothing in common with the Jews. To sum up in few
words: By the unanimous judgment of all, it has been decided that the
most holy festival of Easter should be everywhere celebrated on one
and the same day, and it is not seemly that in so holy a thing there
should be any division. As this is the state of the case, accept joyfully
the divine favour, and this truly divine command; for all which takes
place in assemblies of the bishops ought to be regarded as proceeding
from the will of God. Make known to your brethren what has been
decreed, keep this most holy day according to the prescribed mode; we
can thus celebrate this holy Easter day at the same time, if it is granted
me, as I desire, to unite myself with you; we can rejoice together,
seeing that the divine power has made use of our instrumentality for
destroying the evil designs of the devil, and thus causing faith, peace,
and unity to flourish amongst us. May God graciously protect you, my
beloved brethren.

from DOCUMENTS FROM THE FIRST COUNCIL OF NICEA [THE FIRST ECUMENICAL COUNCIL] A.D. 325

This was the Official Proclamation
by the first Roman Pontiff of the
one holy catholic "church"
to the entire Roman Empire.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

Lol!!!

YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!

>>Attending a community college would be a start at honing interpretative skills and exposing yourself to scholarly materials to discern fact from fiction, a feat apparently found lacking in your response.<<

That appears to me to be egotistical bunk and a superiority complex. You totally discount the Holy Spirit. All too often a formal education only tends to indoctrinate to the views and biases of the instruction or organization.

Nothing like truth to shine its brightness in dark places. Thanks Uri’el-2012.

I’m the one standing at the gate patting his pockets looking for his ticket.

Man made teachings fail it’s students
- garbage in, garbage out.

GIGO INDEED!

No, you could not have read the article very thoroughly at all, because if you had, you would not have posted the uneducated fiction about the formation of the canon of Scripture nor would you have expressed the FICTION that all objective historians agreed on the results of Hippo and Carthage and Alexandria.

I know because none of those "councils" did unanimously agree nor did even those who participated at Trent. Daniel is hardly the one misinformed about the Bible's formation. Let me know the link to your own studied and objective treatise about this, won't you. I promise I'll read it.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

!HALLELUJAH!
!HALLELUJAH!
!HALLELUJAH!

!ABSOLUTELY INDEED!

However,
I have SOME compassion for such folks.

When one's entire values construct system, sociological home and security are at risk of utter collapse by the Holy Spirit's Breath of Truth,

circle the wagons mentalities abound.

And, of course, the enemy of all our souls is right handy with a long list of deceptions and lies to keep HIS house of cards system as unscathed as possible in the minds and lives of his RELIGIOUS SYSTEM victims.

It's just more than a little frightful concerning such victims, that few seem to have the faintest realization about the times we live in . . . about the clash of the enemy's systems with GOD ALMIGHTY, GOD'S SPIRIT, GOD'S POWER, GOD'S TRUTH.

Many are far more vulnerable to being swept up in the GREAT DECEPTION of the END TIMES that Christ was so starkly firm about--more vulnerable than they seem to have any clue about whatsoever. THAT grieves me enormously.

I know that I can never, by clever argument or reason, sway many at all--Mad Dawg's graciousness and reasoning aside.

I know that few to none will ever respect my personal experiences until it is near or likely too late.

I do have some faint hope that on occasion, here and there, one individual . . . and over there another individual . . . will be reminded, by Holy Spirit, at a critical decision point in the chaos and super drama of the END TIMES . . . some of my vividly finger flung absurdities and suddenly REALIZE which side of the critical decision GOD ALMIGHTY AND HIS TRUTH are on. I'm trusting against lots of odds, that GOD'S SPIRIT IS ABLE AND WILL use my feeble flawed effors to rescue some from the flames at critical future points and moments of these increasingly unprecedented dramatic times.

As God made abundantly clear to me many decades ago, HE CREATED ME more than a little off the wall FOR HIS PURPOSES. And HE WILL NOT FAIL in fulfilling HIS PURPOSES WITH ME. He is extremely faithful in fulfilling HIS PROMISES--to ISRAEL and to all those HE MAKES PROMISES TO.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WAYS OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WILL OF THE LORD.

I have some—I think above average—understanding and respect for your experience and even your reasoning.

My . . . construction on it . . . is, of course,

God’s capacity to use virtually anything

in the lives of those

WHOSE HEARTS ARE GENUINELY TOWARD HIM

to draw them deeper into HIM.

We all are tempted to build castles on bits of . . . debris . . . that God has used for good in our lives.

That’s why the gold snake Moses was directed to build and use to save the chidlren of Israel from the snake bites . . . eventually HAD to be destroyed.

BTW, I think that post of yours is one of your most astute that I’ve ever read. Bless you for it.

Thanks for making me out to be a liar.

It merely adds to my Heavenly account of blessings.

Folks don’t counterfeit $3.00 bills.

Dream on.

You precious silly rabbit.

You’ve been on such a roll, I’m having to make a folder just for your golden gems.

LUB, PRECIOUS AGENTS OF THE MOST HIGH KING.