Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.
But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.
“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.
“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”
Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.
But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.
“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”
It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
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838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."
It doesn't refer to Protestants. It very SPECIFICALLY says "Orthodox Churches", capitalized, indicating a name, which is the Orthodox Catholic churches and celebrating the Eucharist, another Catholic thing.
Besides, since Protestants are not considered Christians by most of the FRomans Catholics on this board but rather *faux Christians*, cultists, and heretics, we do not fall under the *Christian* heading in their Catechism by their own definition.
It still leaves Muslims in first place before Protestants. In light of the official Catechism of the Catholic church position on Muslims, having a Catholic turned muslim situation should not be a big deal. Muslims are right behind Catholics in line for salvation according to their own church. Nor should it be an issue if a muslim is in Congress since they worship the same god.
That's an interesting admission about Catholicism since they don't believe in OSAS.
BTW, you're late to the thread. Do you have any idea what started this thread off topic?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
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From: http://www.justforcatholics.org/islam.htm
The Christian response to Muslims should be twofold. Firstly, we must separate ourselves from Islam and clearly state that it is a false religion. ‘Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds’ (2 John 9-11). Christians do not have any ecumenical relationship with Muslims. We cannot participate in their idolatry by saying that we worship the same God. On the contrary, we must warn them that since they do not abide in the doctrine of Christ, they do not have God.
Secondly, we have an evangelistic responsibility towards Muslims. They have been indoctrinated against the Son of God. We must proclaim Jesus, the Son of God, the Lord from Heaven, the Saviour of the World. We must proclaim that he died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. This is our message to Muslims, and to the rest of the world, ‘He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him’ (John 3:36).
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I’m not surprised that you have *No Replies* to that post.
Wrong again, Mark. The Trinity is in the OT. Read the Gospels and see where it is constantly saying that Jesus fulfilled prophecy.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:2-7 2The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.
3 You have multiplied the nation; you have increased its joy; they rejoice before you as with joy at the harvest, as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, you have broken as on the day of Midian.
5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
Psalm 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do your will,for you are my God! Let your good Spirit lead me on level ground!
And last but not least, look at that. "Holy Spirit". Right there, specifically spelled out.
Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence,and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-12 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. 11Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, 12who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name,
As opposed to what? That God sent tradition and a magesterium?
Seriously?
Wrong again, Mark. The Trinity is in the OT. Read the Gospels and see where it is constantly saying that Jesus fulfilled prophecy.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:2-7 2The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.
3 You have multiplied the nation; you have increased its joy; they rejoice before you as with joy at the harvest, as they are glad when they divide the spoil.
4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, you have broken as on the day of Midian.
5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.
Psalm 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do your will,for you are my God! Let your good Spirit lead me on level ground!
And last but not least, look at that. "Holy Spirit". Right there, specifically spelled out.
Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence,and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-12 10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. 11Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit, 12who caused his glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses, who divided the waters before them to make for himself an everlasting name,
===================================
ABSOLUTELY INDEED!
Let’s look at just that phrase and see what scripture says about those contentions.
1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?<
A Christian is a follower of Christ, not a follower of an organization. The very fact that you make a comment that followers of Christ who don’t also follow an earthly (mammon) organization are not Christians is very telling.
Interesting how some followers of Peter castigate non-Catholics for being followers of Paul, when Paul settles that issue from the very beginning.
No wonder so many of them don’t like Paul.
We keep telling the Catholics time and again that we follow Christ, as it is HE who died for us. Not Peter, not Paul, not James, not anybody else. Eternal life is given to us through Christ and Christ alone, by grace alone through faith alone.
As the organized churches move more and more towards the humanistic mantra of “social justice” and the PC approach to “inclusion” of “all roads lead to Christ” those words will resonate with those who are truly called.
The admonition to all who put their faith in an organized institution in any way will be “come out of her” especially so as they watch those organized churches join together moving closer and closer to the “one world religion” prophesied.
As opposed to what? That God sent tradition and a magesterium?
Seriously?
.
Thank you Quix.
A little over a year ago, you posted your belief that the Trinity could not found in the Synoptic Gospels, that the Apostle Paul "definitely" did not subscribe to a Nicene Trinitarian view, and that only "some" evidence for a Triune God could be found within John's Gospel. Only one apostle could be considered Trinitarian?
At least one Catholic FReeper has posted that they do not trust any doctrine not found expressed within the Synoptic Gospels. You seem to be making some cultists' case that the Council of Nicea made up the doctrine of the Trinity out of whole cloth.
Seriously?
Met, don't forget the "men in dresses and funny hats" -- gotta love THAT tradition.
:D
Hoss
I have read most of Markbsnr's posts and I think you are engaged in yet another case of character assassination by misquote, partial quotes and innuendo. It is part of a bigger pattern. You have on several occasions posted out of context and completely falsified interpretations of my own posts.
In tens of thousands of posts I can't recall you ever posting any original thoughts, everything is a cut and paste that, collectively forms a mosaic of your anti-Catholicism.
Since you have decided to enter the fray, why don't you post stop sniping and start expressing some of your own thoughts.
What role do you believe the Nicene Creed should play in the formation of faith? Do you fully support the tenets of Christianity as expressed in the Nicene Creed? Should the Nicene Creed be the lens through which the Bible should be interpreted? Did the Nicean Creed precede and shape the Canon of the Bible, or did the Bible shape the Nicene Creed? Where is the Catechism of the Catholic Church at odds with any part of the Nicene Creed?
I understand what you are saying here.
Ellison left, as many do, not because the Church is wrong, but because he could not accept her teachings.
To think that the Church’s “failure to garner every lost soul for Christ” is a failure is to think that Jesus was a failure.
Jesus proclaimed the Truth and for some that Truth was not acceptable or not enough to make them a His follower. Even some who walked with Him for some time turned away when He revealed the doctrine of the Eucharist.
Some do see it as failure when a Catholic leaves the fold of the Church, but I agree with you that like Jesus, the Church proclaims the Truth and leaves it up to the individual to accept or reject it, and like Jesus, the Church does not alter the Truth to suit the individual.
I left the Church because I wanted to live as I wanted to live without reproval or guilt. I came back because I found that living that way was demoralizing and dehumanizing and fruitless. I pray that others like me will discover the Truth as I did.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
It’s funny. I was just thinking the other day that things on the RF in regards to Catholicism have been pretty mellow. Not a lot of flaming invectives and falsehoods being bandied about by the usual suspects lately.
As I read through the comments here, I literally did so with my mouth open. I could spend a day here just responding to a lot of outright deception and some innocent misconceptions.
I don’t because I have forever given up responding to some of the posters here. Jesus said to shake their dust from your feet and move on. To wade into some of this is to get in the mud and I have sworn off mud wrestling.
None. Scripture tells us all we need to know. The new believer should be referring back to God's inspired written word for the formation of their faith. Mature faith takes time and cannot be had by memorizing a statement of faith some church wrote.
2 Timothy 3: 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Scripture is authoritative and anything doctrinal needs to be referred back to that for support. If it's not found well supported and/or clearly spelled out in Scripture, the teaching needs to be jettisoned.
Creeds serve a purpose when the unwashed masses are illiterate or have no access to the Bible to give some grounding, but they can never and should never even be considered an option to replace memorization of Scripture.
Which, BTW, I do recall memorizing creeds as a Catholic. I cannot recall EVER being told to or encouraged to memorize Scripture itself.
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