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To: HarleyD; Mr Rogers
Therefore it will do no good to pray for the souls of others. If, OTOH, you believe the choice is God's, then pray away. God may grant mercy to those who we pray for.

If the choice is all God's then, by the same token, it will do no good to pray for the souls of others. And, for that matter, there is no ability to pray for the souls of others because it is only God praying to himself through the mouths of those whom he is directing in all their conscious and unconscious actions. You cannot have determinism and, at the same time, posit will and deliberate action by those who are determined. You cannot even have the illusion of this because this presupposes an intellect that can be shown one thing and mistake it for another.
285 posted on 08/29/2011 7:35:07 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
You cannot even have the illusion of this

I think it would make our every day experience of making choices an illusion.

What would some espousing the determinist view answer to the question:

"IF it were demonstrated to you that it was true you do have free will, would you accept it?"

291 posted on 08/29/2011 9:40:40 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: aruanan; Mr Rogers
If the choice is all God's then, by the same token, it will do no good to pray for the souls of others. ...You cannot have determinism and, at the same time, posit will and deliberate action by those who are determined.

You may wish to take the matter up with our Lord for this is what He told us:

Our Father knows what we're going to ask. That isn't determinism, that's predestination. That still doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask. Whether He says "Yes" or "No", it is only through pray that we can understand the will of God for our lives.

319 posted on 08/30/2011 5:42:40 PM PDT by HarleyD
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