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To: irishtenor
You see, Calvinists aren’t saying that some will burn in Hell and some will go to Heaven, the Bible says it.

Calvinists claim that God has a list of special, pre-selected people who will be given eternal life and anyone not on the list is doomed to hell with no say so. There is not one verse of Scripture to validate that.

Does God have a “list”? Probably not, but He does know who will accept him and who will not, therefore, God DOES know who will perish and who Jesus died for.

That's true, and nowhere in Scripture do the words "elect", or "election", or "chosen" refer to eternal life.

Will there be “universal” salvation? No, otherwise Jesus would have said something along the lines of “Don’t worry, I’ve got everything covered.” Instead, Jesus said that he knew every person he died for.

The fact that Jesus knows who will accept Him and who will not does not mean that He makes the decision for people nor does it mean that "chosen" and "election" refer to those who have been "predetermined" for salvation. Jesus also knew 2000 years ago what events would transpire in the world before His return and included that knowledge in Scripture so that we would know what season we were in when those events began to happen. Jesus is God which means He knows past, present, and future. Just because He knows the decisions someone will make does not mean He makes the decisions for them.

Jesus made the sacrifice, and it is up to each individual to accept that sacrifice as payment for sin.

22 posted on 08/27/2011 3:32:35 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Oh, you believe in “free will”. How wonderful for you that you were smart enough to choose the winning side.

Unfortunately, the Bible doesn’t say YOU get to choose. God chooses.


24 posted on 08/27/2011 3:41:13 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***Calvinists claim that God has a list of special, pre-selected people who will be given eternal life and anyone not on the list is doomed to hell with no say so. ***

See, there ya go, distorting and making claims with no knowledge.

God “selected, elected, preordained, predetermined, chose, however you want to say it” people from his creation that he wanted with him in heaven. He chose, we had nothing to do with it. All of these words have a similar meaning, and to say that one of these words “elect”, doesn’t mean savation... well, you can make that claim. But when God says that he will gather “HIS” elect from the four corners of the heavens (Matthew 24) I take it to mean that He elected, He chose, He predetermined, not man.


25 posted on 08/27/2011 3:49:21 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; irishtenor
An interesting turn.

All religious movements go through this ~ the first rush of having "the truth" and the later "reconsideration" and finally "Oh, hey, it didn't mean exactly that ~ it meant this".

So, predestinarianism actually means "performance specification" not "military specification" (milspec).

Then there's quantum mechanics ~ carries elements of both except when it's bobbing up and down screwing with signal strength and frequency.

26 posted on 08/27/2011 3:55:45 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

***That’s true, and nowhere in Scripture do the words “elect”, or “election”, or “chosen” refer to eternal life. ***

How about Ephesians 1:4-5? Or 2 Thes. 2:13? or even 2 Peter 2:9?


27 posted on 08/27/2011 3:58:27 PM PDT by irishtenor (Everything in moderation, however, too much whiskey is just enough... Mark Twain)
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