Posted on 07/26/2011 6:38:10 AM PDT by marshmallow
Article can not be posted due to copyright issues but if you clink on this link you can read all about it.
Sounds fishy. They don’t stop your circulation for 21 minutes during heart surgery. They might put you on a heart-lung machine while they are tinkering with your ticker, but then you wouldn’t be any more dead than the rest of us. If his circulation really was stopped for 21 minutes, he’d probably have been permanently brain-damaged.
Then, of course, they are cashing in with a book about the “experience”. Color me unconvinced.
Which means he wasn't dead, which means he didn't see heaven or purgatory or any other "after life" thing.
And I expect that now, since you’ve made such an absolute declaration that he did not see what he claims, that you will prove your assertion using a feasible argument? ... I’m so sorry your proclamation is as empty as you accuse this man’s assertions to be.
With “Heaven Is for Real” being such a bestseller, we can expect lots of “I went to heaven” books in the next couple of years.
I am not going to opine on what this guy did or did not see. I just want to comment on you post re: stopping circulation & a bypass machine.
There are a few cardiac procedures that require complete cirulatory arrest. Meaning, the bypass machine is turned off & the hear is stopped and drained of blood. I have provided anesthesia for these cases numerous times. We do everything to prevent brain dmamage. The body temperature is often lowered to about 17 degress Celsius, the head packed in ice, and high-dose benozdiazepines given. It’s a technique called “deep hypothermic ciruclatory arrest”. It is quite possible that this gentleman underwent such a procedure.
Do I believe in purgatory? Absolutely. Do I think this guy saw it? Who knows?
Forgive all the typos. I’m trying to hurry since I’m on my break at work.
If someone says they had such an experience, I have to believe they had such an experience...I cannot call them liars...I told a friend one time( when they were telling me about something they experienced and didn't know what to make of it.). I believe you had such an experience, that's all I can say...(it was about her father that had died a few years earlier).
One can choose not to believe them, but cannot say they are lying. Belief is a choice one way or the other...
**When Bob “returned” to the hospital, he said he saw a type of purgatory with hundreds of souls all around him. Purgatory is believed to be a place or state after death in which penitent souls are purified and thereby made ready for heaven.
“There were an awful lot of them — when you looked out the window, they were just wandering,” he said.**
Why? God could have taken him out of his body at anytime He wished to..dead or not.
Long also has a website of NDE accounts.
“There were an awful lot of them — when you looked out the window, they were just wandering,” he said.
Ugh. I truly hope I can avoid that place.
Indeed. But the whole premise of this "vision" is based on a faulty claim that the man was "clinically dead" for 21 minutes. No, he wasn't. They don't stop the circulation in the body to do heart surgery. They bypass the heart and have the circulation conducted by a machine. Therefore, his brain was still getting oxygen. Therefore, he was not clinically dead.
It is very possible this man is telling what he thinks happened. What he fails to realize is that people under general anesthesia often have very weird "dreams".
No. . .if God were going to take this guy to heaven and show him purgatory, He would do so like He did with John, not while he was under general anesthesia.
Interesting post. I had surgery on my aortic valve and ascending aorta seven years ago. I’m told that in addition to the techniques you list, the doctors also used reverse perfusion (pumped oxygenated blood in the reverse direction to maintain oxygen supply to the brain). I’ve had no symptoms of “pump head”.
The entire story is built on a faulty premise. The man claims to have been clinically dead for 21 minutes. During heart surgery, the heart is bypassed, but circulation to the brain still occurs, therefore he was not clinically dead.
Now, you may wish to accept the "dream" this man experienced while under anesthesia as a vision from God. I accept it for what it was - a dream.
Do I think some of what he says about heaven is probably true? Sure. But it isn't anything we haven't already heard from religious teachers or read in the bible. I assume he's listened to teachings and read the bible in the past, so it is no surprise these things popped up in his dream.
Did you NOT read my post???? There are procedures in which flow to the brain is stopped!
Some people just think they know everything & are too stubborn to admit that they don’t.
Yep, aortic valve & ascending aorta are definately two surgeries that require circ arrest. I’m glad you haven’t had any pump head!
The first circ arrest case I did as a grad student was on a 6 year old boy with a congenital cardiac defect. The surgeon was having lots of difficulty, and we had to arrest him for 68 minutes!!! Thankfully, he did quite well afterward. No neuro deficits.
I have been under a couple of times, full anesthesia. I do not recall dreaming at all.
I am not really qualified to comment beyond that, but in my cases it was “here one second, black for a second, and then back.”
No visions, no dreams. Just woke up and I had stitches in my mouth and life was good again. Well, after a couple of weeks life was good...
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