The Companionship of the Holy Ghost

To: svcw; John McDonnell

the real question is why do you so desperately want to hang your eternal soul on this man. Is the draw of “you to can be a god” that great?
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“As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.” (Lorenzo Snow)

From an article by Daniel Peterson in todays Deseret News...

Joseph Smith’s restoration of ‘theosis’ was miracle, not scandal

“If we are children (of God),” wrote the apostle Paul to the Romans (8:17, New International Version), “then we are heirs — heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ.”

“To him that overcometh,” says the Savior to John the Revelator (3:21, King James Version), “will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear.”

Mormonism has been harshly criticized because it takes those verses very literally. Late in his life, the Prophet Joseph Smith began to teach that humans, being children of God, can become like their Father. The doctrine is most famously expressed in the couplet of Lorenzo Snow: “As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.”

Joseph, critics often correctly say, was moving further and further away from mainstream Christendom.

But the doctrine of exaltation was revealed much earlier than the late, Nauvoo period of Joseph’s life. Already in February 1832 — less than two years after the church’s founding, nearly eight years before the Saints settled in Illinois — the Prophet learned that those in the celestial kingdom “are gods, even the sons of God” (Doctrine and Covenant 76:58). And it was implicit even before that, though perhaps unnoticed, in the Book of Mormon:

“And ye shall sit down,” said Jesus to his Nephite disciples, “in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one” (3 Nephi 28:10).

When we apply the transitive law of mathematics to this passage — according to which, if “a” equals “b” and “b” equals “c,” it follows necessarily that “a” equals “c” — the conclusion is inescapable that, if humans can be like the exalted Christ, and if the exalted Christ is like the Father, then humans can be like the Father.

With this doctrine of exaltation or human deification, though, Joseph Smith wasn’t actually moving away from Judeo-Christian tradition. He was returning to a forgotten strand of it.

For ancient Christians and Jews also had a doctrine of human deification, which scholars call “theosis.”

As an early Jewish midrash or scriptural commentary expressed the belief, “The Holy One … will in the future call all of the pious by their names, and give them a cup of elixir of life in their hands so that they should live and endure forever. … (And He will also) reveal to all the pious in the world to come the Ineffable Name with which new heavens and a new earth can be created, so that all of them should be able to create new worlds.”

The Christian saint Justin Martyr (d. A.D. 163) taught that “All men are deemed worthy of becoming gods, and of having power to become sons of the Highest.”

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (d. A.D. 202) declared that “We have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods. … (Jesus Christ) became what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”

Clement of Alexandria (d. A.D. 215) believed that in the “future life” we will be among “gods … those who have become perfect … and become pure in heart … They are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior.”

Tertullian, the first great Latin Christian author (d. A.D. 225), wrote that, through divine grace, the saved “shall be even gods.”

Origen of Alexandria (d. A.D. 251) believed in “the Father as the one true God,” but acknowledged “other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God.”

And the translator of the enormously influential Latin Vulgate Bible, St. Jerome (d. A.D. 419), insisted that “God made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods. … They who cease to be mere men, abandon the ways of vice, and are become perfect, are gods and sons of the Most High.”

Joseph Smith restored an authentically ancient Judeo-Christian doctrine. That’s not a scandal. It’s a miracle.
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Daniel C. Peterson is a professor of Islamic studies and Arabic at BYU, where he also serves as editor in chief of the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and as director of outreach for the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. He is the founder of MormonScholarsTestify.org.

(Daniel Peterson, “Joseph Smith’s restoration of ‘theosis’ was miracle, not scandal” Deseret News, Aug. 3, 2011)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700168175/Joseph-Smiths-restoration-of-theosis-was-miracle-not-scandal.html

461 posted on 08/03/2011 9:47:43 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana

I’m still waiting for the FULLNESS to be shown.

While walking through a large park, feeling thirsty and hungry, I noticed that under one of the shelters was what looked like a refrigerator. It was not white or black, but shining in metallic gold.

Out of curiosity, I approached the gleaming object. I was confronted by a guard who warned me to stay away from that refrigerator. Defiantly, I answered, "This is a public park, and my taxes support your employment." While he continued warning me, I approached the golden refrigerator, which had a manufacturer's label that read "FULLNESS". There were also refrigerator magnets on the door with faces portrayed on them.

I opened the door, saw all sorts of food and beverage, selected one of each that looked good, and moved to sit down at a nearby picnic table to eat and drink. The guard, who had been following me, warned me not to eat of the food nor drink of the beverage, as neither of them were properly labeled. He said that no one knew the origin of the golden refrigerator. "Its food and drink could be poison to one's soul."

I thanked him for his concern, but asked, "Where do I pay for these refreshments?"

"We don't know who put this refrigerator here, nor who supplies it, and no one is here to collect payments for the food and beverages in it. This whole thing has got to be the dastardly plot of the Devil to poison people who are hungry and thirsty."

A while later I returned to the park wanting to taste other food and beverage in the golden refrigerator. I was confronted by a lady guard who repeated the same warnings that the previous guard had voiced.

Before opening the golden door titled "FULLNESS", I noticed that the face of the former guard was portrayed on a refrigerator magnet. I was confused by this, but again took out some food and beverage and began enjoying them.

Meanwhile a family was approaching the refrigerator, and seeing me happily eating and drinking, wondered if I got the refreshments from the refrigerator. I told them that there is plenty of good food and beverage in it, and that no one needs to be paid.

At this, the woman guard jumped into activity, warning the family that the refreshments were not properly labeled and could be poisonous to their souls. I countered, "I have enjoyed refreshments from this refrigerator before and suffered no ill effects."

The guard, who was much more authoritative-looking than I, convinced the family to stay away from the golden refrigerator. I went back for more refreshments. As I shut the door, I noticed that the guard was gone. But on the refrigerator door was a new refrigerator magnet with her face portrayed on it, frozen, like all the other faces, in expressions of concern for the welfare of souls.

This greatly upset me. Meanwhile, another guard was approaching.

462 posted on 08/04/2011 5:20:44 AM PDT by John McDonnell

To: John McDonnell

Your post premise is akin to describing the way clothes are fabricated by the people one of your ‘prophets’ told Mormons lived on the Moon and dressed like Quakers. Building a mytos is one thing, but to fabricate such an absurd mythos and then try to defend it in this modern age of Science is, well, it’s just stupid. And that’s why Mitt Romney should never be elected to any office again and harry Reid and Orrin Hatch should be voted out of any position of authority in America!

463 posted on 08/04/2011 10:08:28 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)

To: John McDonnell

INteresting allegory; not up to John Bunyan, but Colossal Cave Adventure quality indeed.

Interesting, but does nothing to address the FULLNESS other than, “We ain’t died from eatin’ this stuff yet.”

464 posted on 08/04/2011 10:41:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)

I am happy I don’t need a refrigerator full of stuff available to only a few when I have the banquet table of Christ to feed and nourish me and anyone who wishes to join in the banquet. place marker

465 posted on 08/04/2011 2:48:31 PM PDT by svcw (democrats are liars, it's a given)

466 posted on 08/04/2011 2:51:03 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)

The Saviour said:
Matt: 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
James 2:17 Even so faith if it hath not works is dead, being alone. James, chapter 2 is about works.