Posted on 07/15/2011 5:01:33 AM PDT by tcg
....some of my colleagues in the world of Catholic media, journalism and the Press have attributed the positions of this Church and Bachmanns past membership to just "being a Protestant." As someone who has worked ecumenically for decades I reject that dismissal. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod does not represent many Protestants. It is an Anti-Catholic body.
....I have worked with, prayed with and collaborated with MANY Protestant Christians, for over three decades, who would NEVER call the successor of Peter the Antichrist. The colleagues to which I refer go further, they seemingly accept the notion that if Protestant Christians felt otherwise they would no longer be Protestant. That is not only overly simplistic, it fails to recognize the substantial issues which divide the broken Body of Christ.
....Some of the other articles I have read ...attempt to dismiss it by pointing to the authors purported political leanings. So, let me speak to that for a moment. I have political leanings. I like Michele Bachmann's positions on the issues which matter most to this Catholic voter. She is pro-Life and defends marriage and the family and society founded upon it.
I appreciate her pledge to reign in the ever expanding size of the Federal government, which I fear threatens the principle of subsidiarity. Finally, I had been impressed with her intelligence, her oratorical skills, her background and her presence. All of this made her my second favorite possible candidate, until now. My first choice is obvious to anyone who reads my ongoing political commentary.
However, her political and policy positions were not the point of Joshua Green's article and focusing upon them may be a form of deflection. Green raised the issue of Michele Bachmann's long standing identification with a Church body which is clearly Anti-Catholic....
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
CAT FIGHT
Off topic, but just to clarify something not reflected in those quotations. The Catholic church doesn’t recognize any distinction between Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant baptism. As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, if you are baptized, no matter by who, you are by that very act a member of the Catholic Church in substance if not in name. Always keep that in mind when you hear “outside the Church there is no salvation”.
I have been a history student for 30 years and can see the difference between what "laws" state and what in fact happens. I don't throw rocks at the religous beliefs of others as long as they leave me alone. We all will answer to God for our actions. There will not be Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans or Episcopalians in heaven. These are man's institutions.
BLACK OPS ALERT!!!
BLACK OPS ALERT!!!
“It may also be pointed out that the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell.”
False. Fr. Sweeney taught something close to that in the 1940s and was told to stop teaching it. It is not and has not been the position of the Catholic Church. Ever.
http://www.wels.net/about-wels/doctrinal-statements/antichrist?page=0,5
I will also say that as a member with 3 ministers in my direct family, Bachman is going to have to toe a very fine line. If she disavows doctrinal statements, her church and/or synod can withhold fellowship from her. I know people like her here on FR and I do too, but it is possible she's only electable at a local level where her support base contains a large number of WELS members - as her current base does. This doctrinal statement is not a core belief of the church, but it IS a doctrinal statement so it is important, else it wouldn't exist. This whole thing has been brought up before in earlier races and it fizzled out. I'm praying for her that she can weather the storm the drive-by media is going to unleash.
EXACTLY my feelings! We all (allegedly) believe in the God of Jacob and His Son. Of the differences, they are entirely earthly. When we die, God will sort us out. Using Him as a political tool is the height of sacrilege.
Particularly ironic coming from a whiner still sniveling after more than fifty years....
Do you have a reference?
When the author addresses the Catholic Church’s continued acceptance (or failure to excommunicate) the likes of Kerry, Pelosi, Pfleger, and other Catholics who vote for homosexual marriage, late term abortion, etc... then he can get back to us.
The juvenile remarks about Sarah Palin will come from other angles. Her AOG congregation does not have a Luther in its past, though as a Wesleyan/Methodist body they can trace back to a split with the Anglican church whose split with the Roman church was under different circumstances than Luther’s. By the way it seemed nobody cared about this when she was John McCain’s running mate. But if she ever contends to become President, Katy bar the door.
agreed
So, a Lutheran group having anti-Catholic teaching and comments that echo Luther in their base statement of faith is to be expected if that statement of faith is on any traditional writings from Luther. I spent thirty years as a Lutheran, admittedly in a different Synod, and never heard preaching against the Catholic Church and especially not anything calling them the seat of the Antichrist and such. For that, you have to get into the Bestselling End Times Rapture Doctrine which got popular starting in the seventies and revived all that old lies about the Catholic Church. People need to forget the "Catholic Antichrist" bologna and realize that the religion of Satan is Islam which has been at war with the Catholic Church as well as all other Christians ever since it was founded by a demon possessed madman around 1400 years ago.
Those who think this is a "disturbing fact" are either in league with those trying to split up Conservative Christians, in league with the sort of liars like Pelosi who pretend they're Catholic but are really humanists, or are just plain ignorant and gullible. One of the greatest fears of the left is that Christians will work together on important issues like abortion, freedom of religion, and halting and repealing the queer agenda. Don't fall for their tricks.
Bachmann must be making more than a few people nervous.
have a nice day
I guess there should be a statute of limitations?
Let’s be honest here, the Catholics as a whole will never support a conservative candidate.
Here in the Chicago area, they overwhelmingly vote D. Never mind you that they overwhelmingly voted for Obama and his 8 month abortions.... now they are concerned about Bachmann’s religion?
I’m sorry, but I grew up Catholic, hard core, in the Archdiocese of Chicago. Served mass as an altar boy under Cardinal Cody at Holy Name Cathedral. Like the Democrat party for which I once belonged to, I did not leave the Catholic Church, they left me.
It was co-opted by liberal priests here in this area, who are more concerned about political power than they are about church doctrine.
Sorry, but you need to clean your own front yard before you start disparaging your neighbors. I was taught that in the OLD Catholic church.
As far as O’Reilly and Hannity, I don’t watch either any more, but I do love their Catholic guests on there who talk about how Republicans are evil and should be excommunicated for their budget restraint.... or did they stop having those sorts of anti-conservative Catholics on the show?
Courting the Catholic vote is akin to courting the Latino or Black vote. To Republicans, 2 in the bush is worth more than 1 in the hand. I apologize, but I have no need for “big tent” politics anymore if it means giving up conservative principles.
Yes, I posted it BUT I do NOT want a Catholic/Protestant fight to ensue. The real culprit here is the author of this article. His only reason for writing this was to create hostility and damage Bachmann.
As a practicing Catholic, this does worry me and shouldn’t be taken lightly.. I’ve dealt with a lot of anti-Catholicism.
Those who know and believe that the fullness of the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church yet fail to join the Catholic Church, yes, they are in trouble. That’s the Catholic teaching. But by definition, anti-Catholics refuse to “know” that—invincible ignorance. If they’ve been told falsehoods by someone who knows better and those falsehoods prevents them from making an informed decision and they had no reason to suspect they were being fed falsehoods, then they are not culpable. The falsehood-teller is culpable if he knows what he’s telling are falsehoods or suspected they were but was too lazy to find out for sure.
Most non-Catholcs fall into that “invincible ignorance” category. One can tell them what the Church actually teaches but they refuse to hear it. If the voice of conscience within them is saying, hey, you should take another look at this, reconsider,
and they reject that voice of conscience, yes,then they are in trouble. But so is everyone else, Catholics included, who hear that voice but don’t listen.
In today’s lying and misinforming world, many people’s knowledge is screwed up. They are responsible to inform and educate themselves and have to answer for how well they did that. But a lot of people are non-culpable victims of snake-oil salesmen.
I’ve now at least informed you that some assert that what you wrote was false. You now have the responsibility to find out the truth.
The truth is that everyone is responsible to listen to the voice of reason imprinted within him by God and honestly find out the truth. Who does that and who does not, who goes to hell and who does not, none of us can say, only God knows what a person did in his heart.
Many Catholics will end up in hell because they didn’t obey the Church’s teachings and knew they were not obeying.
Catholics falsely taught by heretic “Catholics” can be saved if they didn’t realize they were being bamboozled, but the bamboozlers go to hell. Non-Catholics who didn’t realize they were being told falsehoods about Catholicism can be saved. Those who knowingly tell falsehoods about Protestants or Catholics or Muslims or Republicans or Democrats or polar bears and refuse to repent of their knowing-falsehood-telling go to hell.
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