Posted on 06/14/2011 5:26:34 PM PDT by Salvation
what we do know for sure is they all were in the same Body of Christ as you and i, which gives us all reason to Praise the Lord for His Love, Mercy and Grace!! Amen!
Oh, those typos:
OK, I givr
OK, I give
Just as in their own lifetimes, the Fathers of the Church are bringing people to faith, to know and love Jesus, to accept Him and His church and to believe in salvation through His sacrifice.
How many protestant ministers who began reading the Fathers came home because of what they found?
The Holy Spirit works through them even today, hundreds of years after their death.
The Early Church Fathers
Their Relationship to the Apostles
Click here for a printable version of this page
The early Church fathers are the men who were thee first leaders of the Church. They left behind volumes and volumes of writings from which it is possible to see exactly what the practices and beliefs of the early Church were. These men lived in the earliest times of the Church before centuries of time had passed and the teachings of the apostles could be lost or forgotten. Of course there were false teachers in the early days of Christianity just as much as there are today. It is important to take into account which men were orthodox and which were early heretics. Though much more could be said on the topic, this is a simple chart which shows the relationship of some of the earliest fathers to the apostles. It helps to show why these men are accepted to be the leaders of the early Church, and not the dissenters. Above all is the fact that many of these men were ordained by the apostles, and they in turn ordained others. It is by this succession that Gnosticism is rejected as a true form of early Christianity where others are not. This succession, beginning with the apostles themselves, is the basis for orthodoxy among early writers was so from the earliest days of the Church:
“Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry.” - Clement of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians 44:1-3; 80-96AD
“And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” - Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3:3:1; 110-189 AD
“Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church, — those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the certain gift of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, [looking upon them] either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth.” – Irenaues, Against Heresies 4:26:2; 110-189 AD
“But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst Of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first bishop of theirs] bishop shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men, - a man, moreover, who continued stedfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed. Let the heretics contrive something of the same kind. For after their blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man; because, as the apostles would never have taught things which were self-contradictory, so the apostolic men would not have inculcated teaching different from the apostles, unless they who received their instruction from the apostles went and preached in a contrary manner. To this test, therefore will they be submitted for proof by those churches, who, although they derive not their founder from apostles or apostolic men (as being of much later date, for they are in fact being founded daily), yet, since they agree in the same faith, they are accounted as not less apostolic because they are akin in doctrine. Then let all the heresies, when challenged to these two tests by our apostolic church, offer their proof of how they deem themselves to be apostolic. But in truth they neither are so, nor are they able to prove themselves to be what they are not. Nor are they admitted to peaceful relations and communion by such churches as are in any way connected with apostles, inasmuch as they are in no sense themselves apostolic because of their diversity as to the mysteries of the faith.” – Tertullian, Prescription against Heresies 32; 200 AD
I have this book, one of my absolute favorites:
http://books.google.com/books?id=UH4dKfiCcWEC&pg=PA1&dq=the+faith+of+Catholics+rev.+joseph+berington&hl=en&ei=J4v4TcDWLOX20gG1hf2KCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Also found here:
http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Catholics-Controversy-confirmed-Scripture/dp/1907436022/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1308134350&sr=8-1
Each section starts with a given element of the Faith, then shows the writings of the Church Fathers upon that subject. It inspires one to want to read more from them.
Without getting into the "most, many, some, few" debate I'd like to point out a slight distinction that I and most/many/some/a few other Fundamentalists see.
While we don't outright doubt the early Church Fathers, we also don't extend the idea of infallibility to them either. Only the Apostles have that cloak, and then only in matters where the Holy Spirit was guiding them. We actually have an example of an Apostle acting outside of the Holy Spirit's guiding in Galatians 2:11 where Peter and Barnabas were guided by peer pressure from the Jewish converts to shun Gentile believers.
Now that's not to say that the Holy Spirit couldn't and didn't work through the early Church Fathers, since it was by His guidance that we were given the Canon of Scripture, but discernment becomes of the utmost importance due to their lack of a first hand knowledge of the events surrounding Christ's life, crucifixion, burial and resurrection.
Simply put, we hold to the idea that Reagan put so succinctly as "Trust, but Verify". I personally find it very enlightening and rewarding to read what some of the early Church Fathers have written, as it gives a great insight to what they went through to help spread the Gospel in those early years.
Unfortunately, according to today’s Catholic and Orthodox churches, the fathers were ignoramuses whenever they endorsed a literal reading of Genesis because they were “men of their time.” On everything else they were experts, but on Genesis they were idiots.
**How many protestant ministers who began reading the Fathers came home because of what they found?**
Amen to that. It happens again and again.
**While we don’t outright doubt the early Church Fathers, we also don’t extend the idea of infallibility to them either.**
This is a new area for me, but I believe the Early Church Fathers did NOT agree on everything.
While I am most closely identified as a Fundamentalist, I most gladly admit that much of what I found in the early Church writings has strengthened my belief that the Scriptures are whole and without error. That is not to say that there has been anything to weaken that faith, just that not everything that I read pertained to reinforcing the idea of the infallibility of Canon. If anything, it’s drawn me into a deeper understanding of the Faith and drawn me closer to Christ.
Nice chart. Thanks.
Thanks-I do not know how to do images or charts on our freeper site. It looks beautiful. If a picture speaks a thousand words this chart speaks volumes! Amen!
How very true, but the discussions and disagreements we have today are a mean reflection of the millions of hours of thought, study, dedication and scholarship that the early church fathers devoted to the faith and therefore we have much to gain from going over what they battled so hard over -- it means we don't have to do it today -- there is little new or original.
It is almost a conceit we show today in thinking our enominational and doctrinal arguements are original since they were likely settled through the centuries.
True. I have never understood how these champions of modernity and rationality justify their support and celebration of non-western, non-modern, non-rational "indigenous pipples."
Yes but today "we know better."
I'll never understand it. Catholics and Orthodox will cite the fathers to "prove" something, but if you quote a father who believes Genesis actually happened just as it is written they'll say "they didn't know any better back then."
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