Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Judith Anne]

Now you have gone and done it!

First the password, then the location, now the badge.

I CANNOT worship the Ishtar-Mary goddess properly when I am so upset like this! No bingo for you, and stay away from the bake sale. You-know-who is going to be veeeerrrrry displeased...

[Titanites]

I CANNOT worship the Ishtar-Mary goddess properly when I am so upset like this!

You mean the bake sale goddess?

[wardaddy]

In my life around many Jews from overseas to manhattan to miami beach to ramat gan I have find that generalization to be very accurate about Jewish moms and wives

As accurate as the passive aggressive inclinations of Southern gals

my experience with Orthodox Jews is limited...the womans family role may be more traditional...i don’t know...but even in the South Jewish moms are very strong willed in a direct way in the family

[OLD REGGIE]

“SECRET MARY SOCIETIES”

Where have you heard of such groups? It's new to me.

They're in the Book of Secret Groups.

Find this group The "Bahble Bleavin" Protestant cults of FreeRepublic and look in the index.

[Quix]

I believe you are the only one here who talks about an Ishtar-Mary goddess (which, frankly, appears to be a figment of the psychos' linguistics). Whereas, the Virgin Mary is called an interloper and a distraction by you.

Why is that?

.

I realize that hiding in the Ishtar-Goddess' skirt is not a good place to observe reality from . . . however, Evidently your memory is short or otherwise flawed:

.

Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE:

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[Quix]

I believe you are the only one here who talks about an Ishtar-Mary goddess (which, frankly, appears to be a figment of the psychos' linguistics). Whereas, the Virgin Mary is called an interloper and a distraction by you.

I do think your slightly clever slightly creative harsh personal assault deserves an honorable mention, amongst the contestants, however.

[Quix]

I love it when you get the details so off the wall wrong.

[Quix]

Actually, the allegation was made by someone no longer around . . . to whom at least a couple of RC’s hereon had disclosed their membership in such to him.

I was just curious . . . I’d never known there was such before his disclosure belatedly reached me.

Maybe I’ll eventually come up with some names of such orgs and be able to ask more specific questions.

Proddys are usually not overly thrilled with secret societies connected to the Vatican Cult.

Witness such as . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUlz_UKzpv4

[Quix]

PRAISE GOD!

YEA!

CONGRATS ON YOU AND THE FRIEND.

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX for the kind reply.

[Quix]

NO SUCH SOCIETY?

REALLY?

Perhaps if the likes of Salvation and NYer tell me that, I MIGHT have to reconsider.

[MarkBsnr]

Yeah, I think it’s pretty horrid how satan has been so successful at infiltrating the ISHTAR-MARY-GODDESS figure into the Vatican Cult . . . and the seducing the sheeple into so much hideously UNBiblical idolatry and blasphemies thereby.

I had no idea that your Vatican Cult worshipped Ishtar. Funny, the things that you guys let slip.

[MarkBsnr]

Yeah, I think it’s pretty horrid how satan has been so successful at infiltrating the ISHTAR-MARY-GODDESS figure into the Vatican Cult . . . and the seducing the sheeple into so much hideously UNBiblical idolatry and blasphemies thereby.

I had no idea that your Vatican Cult worshipped Ishtar. Funny, the things that you guys let slip.

[MarkBsnr]

Trying to pin the Vatican Cult headquartered in the Vatican, St Peter’s, The Papal offices etc. on Proddys is shockingly . . . cheap and shallow . . . that anyone would think even FREEPER LURKERS would be so dense as to believe Proddys would have anything to do with such hideousness.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protesy.htm is what Hilaire Belloc had to say, entitled "The Heresy of Protestantism". You may find it enlightening. At any rate, the Ishtar goddess cult does not reside in Catholicism and must reside in what you apparently have knowledge of, called your Vatican Cult. If you wish to belong and keep advertising it on FR, that is your prerogative, I suppose.

I suspect this former Priest might not be surprised that RC’s would go to such silly lengths, however:

I thought that jesus-is-savior.com is a hate site banned by FR. I shall ask the RM for confirmation. I have waded through that swamp on a couple of occasions, and find it rather distasteful and bereft of things like facts.

[Quix]

You could well be right.

I am very bad at keeping such lists in my head and am often too neglectful to check the list on FR

Apologies if it’s from a forbidden site.

[Quix]

I have now printed the list of forbidden sites from your RM home page above my printer and between my two monitors for easier reference. Hopefully, that will solve the problem.

That does remind me though . . . Why is it we have not sites banned that Proddys would find offensive?

Oh, Right—that’s not the Proddy’s mentality. Proddys seem to be much more for a free wheeling exchange of ideas, assertions and even off the wall allegations in a free-for-all town square. LOL.

Silly me.

[MarkBsnr]

Apologies if it’s from a forbidden site.

Thank you. From certain points of view, it is often difficult to distinguish between the accepted and the unacceptable.

[Quix]

Wellllll it sure is for me . . .

I rarely even look at a URL or other such identifiers . . . like I rarely look at times things are posted etc. Just of little interest or import to me.

I’m more interested in ideas and the individuals behind things—personal sources in terms of individuals and their character.

[presently no screen name]

My problem is with these wacko American Bible cults that have sprung up in the last 300 years with their Sola Scriptura nonsense.

The early Christians read the Scriptures to verify what they heard.

Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received The Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so."