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To: mlizzy; narses; Mad Dawg; vladimir998; Dr. Brian Kopp; Cronos; fwdude
Way back at post 789, fwdude posted a Marian devotion which instantly grated against my spirit. But I did not want to comment at the time because I want light, not heat. So I waiting for the thread to cool a bit. The Marian devotion as posted on 789 (emphasis mine):

"O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart.

We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are. To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country."

Courtesy ping to fwdude.

In the first place, I cannot see how a Christian can give away that which he does not own.

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? – I Cor 6:19

The earth [is] the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. – Psalms 24:1

The consecrating part I understand although of course I do not agree with consecrating to Mary as optimal stewardship of God's property. But the giving away part really grates in the Spirit.

I see consecrating as roughly the equivalent of dedicating, submitting or yielding for a sacred purpose. Certainly the Israelis were to submit to Moses’ leading. Korah and company were held to account for rebelling against Moses (Numbers 16.)

And wives are to submit themselves to their own husbands. That of course does not mean that a wife is to submit herself to men who are not her husband.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. – Ephesians 5:2

And that submission is within the Lord not apart from Him. If the husband decided he was going to be a Satan worshipper she should not follow his leading.

Slaves are to submit to their masters, children to the parents, youngers to elders and so on.

And I do perceive that the Catholic Church has carried on with the tradition of submission within the ranks of the members of the Catholic Church. The members are expected to submit to dogma, doctrine, authorities in a hierarchy whether in the flesh or not, etc.

So the submitting to Mary is not surprising to an outsider looking in. But the giving away part is disturbing.

Control is not yielded in consecration - it is in giving. Also, personal responsibility is preserved in consecration.

Obviously no person “owns” his own country such that he could give it to Mary. Nor does he own his wife or his children and so on. Jeepers, he doesn’t even own himself.

God “owns” all that there is – every one and every thing. During our mortal life, we are merely stewards of His property – most particularly our own hearts, minds, souls and bodies.

After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine. His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. – Matthew 25:19-30

By my reading of the parable of the talents, the proper stewardship of one’s heart, mind and soul is not to give it to someone else (the exchanger in the above parable of the talents) but to consecrate it actively to God Himself.

In the context of this devotion, the exchanger would be Mary. But it could also be a Bishop, priest, minister, preacher, teacher, etc. Some exchangers I perceive as perilous – e.g. Mohammed - some obviously so – e.g. Jim Jones.

As a bakery shop kid, I have no exchangers. I consecrate all that I am to God Himself:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. – Matthew 22:35-40

And that interprets to following His leading alone:

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. - Romans 8:1

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:3-5

Now for my question: what is the “official” Catholic teaching on stewardship of ones’ heart, mind and soul and how does the teaching reconcile with the giving away part in the above Marian devotion?

1,062 posted on 06/05/2011 12:52:41 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

These prayers and supplications to Mary get much worse than this, Alamo-Girl. This is just the tip of the iceberg.


1,070 posted on 06/05/2011 1:21:35 PM PDT by fwdude (Prosser wins, Goonions lose.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; it_ürür; Bockscar; Mary Kochan; Bed_Zeppelin; YellowRoseofTx; Rashputin; ...
Fellow FReepers, Alamo-Girl asks a question for which I have not the answer. She is, and has been, among the most respectful and charitable of the posters on threads like these and I would love to see her answered in that same spirit. Please help!
Now for my question: what is the “official” Catholic teaching on stewardship of ones’ heart, mind and soul and how does the teaching reconcile with the giving away part in the above Marian devotion?

1,107 posted on 06/05/2011 4:38:02 PM PDT by narses ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." Chesterton)
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To: Alamo-Girl

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Beautifully put.

However . . . I’m sure the wordsmiths will be replying in the slickest of terms.

Sigh.


1,129 posted on 06/05/2011 7:09:40 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl

BTW, FYI,

I put that one of yours at the bottom of my home page.

THX.THX.


1,143 posted on 06/05/2011 7:32:59 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl

If/when, you get an answer, please ping me to it....


1,177 posted on 06/05/2011 9:05:01 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; fwdude; narses; Mad Dawg; mlizzy
Your question made me think, Alamo-girl. This can be divided into 2 responses:
  1. " what is the “official” teaching on stewardship of ones’ heart, mind and soul? namely the phrase and

  2. the meaning

For the first, the very phrase is like asking any Christian group in the 1700s what "rapture" meant -- we don't have an official teaching on each new phrase used amongst our Christian brethern -- for instance, when you guys argue about post-mil, pre-mil, dispensationalism etc. these are new terms from the 1800s that we don't even know, let along have any official teaching on!

The Church's policy since Apostolic times is "believe the core fundamentals -- encapsulated in the Apostles Creed now the Nicene Creed which is purely Biblical. Don't believe anything that contradicts that. Besides that, you can hold a few different new phrases" and will only deliberate when something comes of utter dispute or if something is definitely contra to the faith as we have always known.

The second point requires more time to answer in detail

2,246 posted on 06/12/2011 3:12:49 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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