Posted on 05/31/2011 11:53:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
The Protoevangelium of James
“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).
“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).
“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).
“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).
Origen
“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Hilary of Poitiers
“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).
Athanasius
“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).
“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).
“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).
Didymus the Blind
“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).
Ambrose of Milan
“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).
Pope Siricius I
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).
Augustine
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
Leporius
“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
Cyril of Alexandria
“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
Pope Leo I
“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).
Please do.
In regards to the meditative aspect of “praying” the rosary; just for example two of the mysteries (though all of them have great meaning to me)
When I am praying the sorrowful mysteries, I sometimes find it hard to even get past the Agony in the Garden and/or the Crowning of Thorns, and/or the Crucifixion, because I want to stay there and be with Him for a while. -—the scriptural words remain with me for a long time : “could you not watch one hour with Me?”—”we have no king but Caeser”—”Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom”. And then the Joyful: “Who am I that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?”-— “He took the Child into his arms and Blessed God”-—”and He went back to Nazareth and was subject to them”.
And so on, through all the wonderful encounters with the Lord—as if I were myself were there to plead, to touch, to love, to hold, to weep. I think I would not so easily live out these moments each day with the Lord unless I had the rosary to plan out my spiritual itinerary for me.
The rosary has offered me and my large family so many graces, especially when we prayed the mysteries together.
Many people don’t realize that even Martin Luther had Devotion to Our Lady through prayer.
From Martin Luther....
“Our prayer should include the Mother of God . . . What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: “Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!” You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor . . . We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her “Martin Luther- (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).
The rosary has offered me and my large family so many graces, especially when we prayed the mysteries together.
In not ragging on you, ROE, but I want to point out that this is a perfect example of the kind of language where, Catholic-to Catholic, we understand that you don't think of the Rosary as doing the offering but as something more like an instrument, indeed, a "sacramental" which prompts you to offer time and prayer to God in a particular way and in that time and prayer you have received gifts and "consolations" (Catholic talk = blessings and strength) from God
But our friends who have heard little good and much evil about us could read those very words and say, "See there? They think those beads offer blessings to them, the superstitious idolaters!"
Very interesting stfassisi. I was MS Lutheran, and Mary was never mentioned. I wonder when she was dropped from “the program,” or if she was ever there to begin with.
THANKS FOR THE PING.
"Late have I loved you, O Beauty ever ancient, ever new, late have I loved you! You were within me, but I was outside, and it was there that I searched for you. In my unloveliness I plunged into the lovely things which you created. You were with me, but I was not with you. Created things kept me from you; yet if they had not been in you they would have not been at all. You called, you shouted, and you broke through my deafness. You flashed, you shone, and you dispelled my blindness. You breathed your fragrance on me; I drew in breath and now I pant for you. I have tasted you, now I hunger and thirst for more. You touched me, and I burned for your peace." - St. Augustine (The Confessions)
Don't you know you have to close you eyes really, really, really hard such that your entire face is distorted, like those TV preachers do, for a prayer to actually be heard by God?
My mother always told me it would get stuck that way.
THX.
Will check it out.
“They think those beads offer blessings to them”
That never even crossed my mind. Truly. The blessings are the words from Scripture and the depth of meaning they bring to everyday life.
I have never once thought of rosary beads offering blessings, but rather the focus of the mind and heart on the Biblical records of Christ among us.
I regret that I didn’t express myself well.
True.
When did SUPER CRASS
become a RELIGIOUS DUTY OF OBLIGATION
or is it a dogmatic ritual
in the Ortho church?
i dunno -- probably you can ask these guys
Remember, Jesse noted the following new revelation of Jesse about heaven
oh, wait, didn't your posts defend Benny (9 gods) hinn:
Quix's posts on Jesse the demonic conman Duplantis
- post 1125: Many folks assume that because Benny Hinn doesn't fit our notions of integrity and a lot of other truly very important factors--GOD SIMPLY COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT EVER USE HIM IN ANY WAY FOR ANY REASON IN ANY CONTEXT.
- From post 589: If God chooses to use Benny, that’s God’s business.
- post 1213: compared to Jesse Du Plantis in terms of pleasing God. -- don't you mean Jesse comforting God? Saying "there, there?"
- Quix: what little I’ve watched of Jesse has been edifying. He is exceedingly Biblical—way above average, imho.
- Quix: Jesse believes in the basic Biblical doctrines of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity
I seriously think that your quote, Quix: Jesse believes in the basic Biblical doctrines of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity is more than a bit wrong
Or, are you saying that Jesse teaches only Pentecostal doctrines?
Interesting -- so you don't recall your posts 1962, 1801, etc. etc.?
Hypocrisy is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit, Quix.
That's probably because you don't test as high as I do on the "Help! They're after me!" scale.
Please don't think I was ragging on you. I pinged Quix, though, because of the old "dirty pictures" joke.
Look, let's acknowledge one thing. As even Tillich understood, the MAIN disobedience, the most disastrously efficient way to clamber OUT of the stream which flows from the temple, is idolatry -- worshipping first the work of one's hands, and then the hands themselves. What in our scheme is the chief of the Capital Sins, pride, is just the most disastrous element in the capacious set of idolatries.
SO, our non-Catholic friends,while they may be wrong in their attribution of idolatry to our teaching and practice, are VERY right indeed to be on their guard against the sin itself.
We might quibble with methods and rhetoric, but we'd be wrong to complain about their intent and concern.
But, being aware of this careful concern, we feelthy papists will also be aware that they may construe what seems to us to be a natural expression as an instance of idolatry.
Even when I was a non-Catholic holyD00d, I used to caution people about saying,"Prayer works." NOT that it's not true,but that it's imprecise. If we think of prayer as something WE do, then we flirt with saying, "I have the spiritual thing I do and it brings results," -- worshipping the works of our hands. If we remember that prayer is something the Spirit does in us, then the usage is okay.
So in charity and prudence and in appreciation of the laudable concern about idolatry, I guess we need to think how our natural and unforced language may impress others.
No harm no foul.
Hey, until you've tried our Ortho shoes, don't knock us, D00d!
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