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The Church Fathers- Mary: Ever Virgin
The Church Fathers ^ | 120AD-450AD

Posted on 05/31/2011 11:53:33 AM PDT by marshmallow

The Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

Origen

“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).

Hilary of Poitiers

“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).

Athanasius

“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

Epiphanius of Salamis

“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).

“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).

Jerome

“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).

“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).

Didymus the Blind

“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).

Ambrose of Milan

“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).

Pope Siricius I

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

Augustine

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

Leporius

“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).

Cyril of Alexandria

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).

Pope Leo I

“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: virginmary
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To: bkaycee

Wirery elderly Black Pastor Julia Coleman of Phoenix

HOLY SPIRIT FILLED BAPTIST CHURCH OF GOD AND MIRACLES

has taught a LOT that

many people sabotage the answers they seek to their prayers by ‘worrying’ their prayers—that we

MUST LEARN

TO TAKE OUR BURDENS TO THE LORD

AND LEAVE THEM THERE.

Mention it—BEST ONCE—THEN TRUST HIM

to deal with it in HIS WAY(S)

IN HIS TIME.


2,241 posted on 06/12/2011 2:41:08 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Iscool

INDEED.


2,242 posted on 06/12/2011 2:41:59 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: bkaycee; Iscool

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

And any hint of GOING TO LESSER BEINGS

FOR ANSWERS TO OUR LIVE

is worse than the Children of Israel telling Moses—

YOU TALK TO GOD [at the Tent of Meeting].

We are afraid of Him. You talk to Him. Leave us out of it.

GOD WAS NOT AT ALL HAPPY WITH THEIR RESPONSES TO

HIS INVITATION TO DIALOGUE WITH HIM

!!!!!!!!!!!DIRECTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ONE ON ONE.

He hasn’t CHANGED HIS attitude about such things.


2,243 posted on 06/12/2011 2:43:54 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thanks much for your discerning and perceptive commentary.

However, I was hoping for MORE OF YOUR THOUGHTS on the issue of . . . aspects of . . .

Christ as resurrected reigning in Heaven

KING OF KINDS AND LORD OF LORDS . . .

CREATOR GOD IN CLOSE TO ALL OR ALL OF HIS GLORY . . .

For lack of a better construct to wrap words around . . .

What percentage might we speculate . . .

What percentage of the

REIGNING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER—CREATOR GOD—JESUS THE CHRIST—KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS . . .

What percentage seems logical and the least bit supported or logically derived from Scripture . . .

What percentage of the resurrected Reigning CHRIST THE KING OF KINGS is still concerned with

ANY

of the mortal aspects of his being 2000 years ago in any functional, on-going, operant way that carries any import in Heaven?

Of course, I’m NOT talking about the PERHAPS added empathy for mortals that being one MIGHT have contributed to an already OMNISCIENT God . . .

I’m talking more about—to what degree at all—what percentage of the time or weight of all the issues etc. He contends with on a daily basis as reigning-in-Heaven King of Kings and Lord of Lords . . . does He likely concern Himself with vis a vis his earthly stint as a mortal??

Yes, I know God knows when a sparrow falls and has all the hairs of our head numbered. I’m not talking about that either.

Let’s say he spent 100’s of hours before His earthly ministry being a son apprentice to Joseph the carpenter. Is He as reigning in Heaven King of Kings and Lord of Lords still majorly focused on how good the carpenters in Israel are now in comparison to Joseph?

Is He, as a matter of course, very GREATLY preocuppied with the price of lumber and the quality of wood available to carpenters in Israel now?

Or has He most likely, left some lesser mortal issues, concerns, dynamics, relationships more in the dust or the background?

It’s hard to articulate what I’m trying to get at!


2,244 posted on 06/12/2011 2:57:26 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

“that you didn’t understand what I wrote—evidently—AT ALL.”

Then enlighten me. In English.


2,245 posted on 06/12/2011 3:12:14 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Alamo-Girl; fwdude; narses; Mad Dawg; mlizzy
Your question made me think, Alamo-girl. This can be divided into 2 responses:
  1. " what is the “official” teaching on stewardship of ones’ heart, mind and soul? namely the phrase and

  2. the meaning

For the first, the very phrase is like asking any Christian group in the 1700s what "rapture" meant -- we don't have an official teaching on each new phrase used amongst our Christian brethern -- for instance, when you guys argue about post-mil, pre-mil, dispensationalism etc. these are new terms from the 1800s that we don't even know, let along have any official teaching on!

The Church's policy since Apostolic times is "believe the core fundamentals -- encapsulated in the Apostles Creed now the Nicene Creed which is purely Biblical. Don't believe anything that contradicts that. Besides that, you can hold a few different new phrases" and will only deliberate when something comes of utter dispute or if something is definitely contra to the faith as we have always known.

The second point requires more time to answer in detail

2,246 posted on 06/12/2011 3:12:49 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Iscool; Quix
Oh, have you never read Galatians 6:17
[17] From henceforth let no man be troublesome to me; for I bear the marks of the Lord Jesus in my body.

Stigmata is the plural of the Greek word στίγμα stigma, meaning a mark.

Now, just because you don't realise that many words in English derive from Latin or other languages and many words are homonyms, well, you need to go read more -- start with the Bible

2,247 posted on 06/12/2011 3:24:25 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Quix; Iscool
REIGNING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER

Now that's something iscool wouldn't agree with, right Iscool? how does the Modal god in your opinion do that?

2,248 posted on 06/12/2011 3:27:27 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Quix; Mad Dawg; Alamo-Girl

Here is more from Fulton Sheen for you to consider...

“It will be discovered that so called Christians who think they believe in the Divinity of Christ but do not believe in Mary as the Mother of God fall generally into four ancient heresies. They are Adoptionists, who believe that Christ was a mere man but after birth was adopted by God as His Son. Or they are Nestorians, who held that Mary gave birth to a man who had a close union with Divinity. Or they are Eutychians, who decided the human nature of Christ and hence made Mary merely, an instrument in a theophany. Or they are Docetists, holding that Christ’s nature was only a phantom or an appearance. Those who are offended at reverence paid Mary, if they will analyze their thoughts, will discover that they are holding a Docetist or some similar ancient error. Even if they profess the Divinity of Christ in His earthly existence, such people shrink from affirming that His human nature is glorified with Him at the right hand of the Father, where He makes intercession for us. As some no longer think Christ as God, so some no longer think of Christ as a glorified Man. If He is no longer Man, the relation of Mary to Him extends beyond Bethlehem and Calvary even to His Mystical Body the Church. No one, therefore, who thinks logically about Christ can understand such a question as: ‘Why do you speak so often of His Mother?’ “ (The World’s First Love, pg 71)


2,249 posted on 06/12/2011 3:36:39 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Quix

I think the idea of God giving more of his attention to this and less to that is based on considering his attention to be finite. And I think it infinite.


2,250 posted on 06/12/2011 3:50:45 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: stfassisi
I don't understand this line:

If He is no longer Man, the relation of Mary to Him extends beyond Bethlehem and Calvary even to His Mystical Body the Church.

2,251 posted on 06/12/2011 4:20:03 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

“”I don’t understand this line””

I understand that as saying that without a human connection through Mary that Mary would be Divine as well.It is important that we understand Mary’s human importance in the Incarnation of the God Man

The Blessed Mother is obviously not Divine,She is Immaculate


2,252 posted on 06/12/2011 4:34:34 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Mad Dawg
The need for some acquaintance with the ways of language over time. also shows in your startling interpretation of the wrenched out of context phrase "the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary."

It's your phrase not mine...You posted it in 2143

It's still incomprehensible, nobody is denying that, and that's why Catholics are supposed to bow at the part of the Creed that says "And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and was made man."

If you think about all the meanings and uses of "of" and of the genitive case there are plenty of ways to look at the text you excerpted without thinking that the Holy Spirit is "of" the Virgin Mary anymore than God is "of" me, though He is in some sense "my God," as even the Psalmist says.

In other words, we see what it says but it doesn't say what it says...The same tactic you guys apply to plain scripture...

One reason to develop the linguistic skills of grammar,logic, and rhetoric is precisely to avoid wasting time on silly and improbable interpretations of texts torn from their context.

Nice try...It says what it says...

2,253 posted on 06/12/2011 4:59:49 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Mad Dawg
Do we agree that Mary believed in Jesus? If so, then the plain meaning of the text is that she will do the works that he did and greater works.

The works that Jesus did include signs and miracles. Signs and miracles are not excplicitly excluded in this passage.

That's quite a method of theology you got going there...Jesus didn't say we couldn't, so go for the moon...

Therefore it seems that Jesus said that members of the set of people who believe in him would do miracles. Mary is a member of that set.

Therefore Jesus said Mary would do miracles.

The people that believe in Jesus would include those in this generation as well...But I don't see everyone doing signs and miracles...I haven't done any...Have you???

It's amazing to watch you guys jump the thru hoops to try to convince us and probably each other that your beliefs have some sort of basis in scripture...

2,254 posted on 06/12/2011 5:15:41 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Mad Dawg
To you, Brother Quix, I'd say that you used the word "logically" Or "logical" about the problem of the godhead being in the Jesus the Christ.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

2,255 posted on 06/12/2011 5:23:03 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Mad Dawg
Why did you not ping Quix in an post which quoted him and objected to what he said?

Good to see your watching Quix's back against us bad guys...And which post would that be???

2,256 posted on 06/12/2011 5:25:22 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Running On Empty

LOL...


2,257 posted on 06/12/2011 5:26:37 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
It's your phrase not mine...You posted it in 2143

It is PART of a phrase which was created by the Anglican Church. It is not "mine" in any way.

I don't know why anyone interested in the truth would focus on a tendentious and misleading excerpt from a Protestant document to attack or question Catholic teaching. If you don't like your understanding of the Anglican translation of the Nicene Creed, and if you are sure it's their problem and not yours, then I'd suggest taking it up with some Anglicans.

The translation is not used by Catholics.

2,258 posted on 06/12/2011 5:37:37 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Iscool
It's your phrase not mine...You posted it in 2143

It is PART of a phrase which was created by the Anglican Church. It is not "mine" in any way.

I don't know why anyone interested in the truth would focus on a tendentious and misleading excerpt from a Protestant document to attack or question Catholic teaching. If you don't like your understanding of the Anglican translation of the Nicene Creed, and if you are sure it's their problem and not yours, then I'd suggest taking it up with some Anglicans.

The translation is not used by Catholics.

2,259 posted on 06/12/2011 5:37:53 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Iscool

I have seen miracles and participated in one.


2,260 posted on 06/12/2011 5:39:57 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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