Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
no my dear friend, the imbalance does not lie in Catholic teaching, but in those that misrepresent it. for example, the title “Mother of God” is actually all about praising the Lord Jesus Christ and defending His divinity and is not at all teaching any merit in Mary. i would love to find a Protestant on FR that actually correctly states Catholic teaching, but to date, have been sorely disapointed. maybe that is because if they actually were exposed to the true doctrines, they converted and are no longer Protestant.
Quix wrote:
“I do not remotely consider Israel to be a parallel to Mary as you noted.”
Thank you for saying that. You make my point to one Lord one faith one baptism better than I could have. Both of you will deny any point of comparison. Both will deny that either’s position detracts from Christ. And, yet, look at the amount of time, effort, and passion devoted to the defense of Mary’s position and Israel’s position by Rome and dispensationalism, respectively.
What I believe doesn’t matter to your salvation. Work out your own salvation.
Oh never mind.
yes, it’s a shame for the last 500 years, the Church has had to defend Mary and her role in salavation history. it wasn’t so for the first 15 centuries of the Church.
False assumptions and biases usually
lead to false conclusions.
oLofob wrote:
“the title “Mother of God” is actually all about praising the Lord Jesus Christ and defending His divinity and is not at all teaching any merit in Mary.”
I am well aware of that. “Theotokos” is a term Lutherans have never, ever, ever disputed, as you should know. There is unbreakable Scriptural support for what this term means, even though the term (word) itself is never found in the Bible. However, let me ask you, do you believe and confess that Mary is “Regina caeli (or coeli, if you prefer medieval Latin)”? And if so, why?
“Theotokos” truly is all about Christ. “Regina caeli” is not. And you know it.
Quix wrote:
“False assumptions and biases usually lead to false conclusions.”
Indeed!
i must confess to having to look that up, 12 years of Catholic school and attending Mass for 52 years, i have never heard the term.
Jesus is our King, the mother of the King is Queen, agree?
you do know Catholic teaching is Mary is a created being and we don’t worship her, correct?
Let us pray. O God, who gave joy to the world through the resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, grant we beseech Thee, that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may obtain the joys of everlasting life. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen
this is the regina coeli hymm, you will notice it says “through the same Christ our LORD”
Finally, from Revelation 20:1-3, we are told of a one thousand year period where the Devil IS bound in chains:
So in a book of symbols, you read "one thousand" as literal. Interesting. In Psalms 50:10 does God not own the cattle on the 1001st hill? Given 1 Co 4:15, did the Church in Corinth really have 10,000 teachers? Better yet, given Ps 105:8, Dt 7:9 and most importantly 1 Ch 16:15 and given that a generation is often assumed to be forty years, wouldn't you conclude that the "rapture" will take place 35,000 years from now?
If the Devil is bound in everlasting darkness NOW, then he must have a long chain. ;o)
Fine, Peter and Jude are liars, and whoever came up with that insipid line sleeps well with the idea that the Bible can contradict itself.
The same Peter that wrote that Satan is presently in chains also said that he is like a roaring lion. Think about "roaring" and is that the behavior of a lion who is about to stalk, creep up and pounce on its prey?
Satan tempts under three forms: crafty serpent, angel of light, and here, a roaring lion - very much unlike the subtlety of the previous two, this form is violent and was quite descriptive of the persecution the readers of Peter's letter were under at Pontus.
Never heard the term, huh? Interesting.
On earth, yes, the mother of the king is the queen. But we are, by definition, not dealing with earthly matters, but eternal. And Mary is never called such in the Bible.
And, yes, I know Mary is a created being. And, yes, I know that you don’t worship her. And yet there is a little more here than at first meets the eye. You’ve never heard the terms “co-mediatrix” applied to her, I suppose? “Co-redemptrix”? Both John Paul II and Benedict XVI used/use these terms often ... as well as “Regina caeli.” The terms are regularly found in books that bear the proper imprimatur and nihil obstat.
co-redemptrix is like mother of God. it shines the light on Jesus as the sole mediator between God and man, by recalling the role Mary played in salvation history by saying yes to the angel. Jesus alone atoned for sin on the cross. you really should do a little research on what true Catholic teaching is. i assume sincerity of those until they are corrected and still insist on misrepresenting the Church’s doctrines. unfortunately, that is all too common here.
Would Paul and Silas deny their beliefs to all in their assign areas. It is well to remember the words of Jesus in LK 12:9 and Mt 10:33.
When will the next rapture occur?
“through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother”
Yes, this would be a practical result of Mary being understood as “co-mediatrix.” And, yes, I know that the intercession of other saints is also invoked, who are not considered co-mediators. Which brings us to another point. Where are we commanded or encouraged to seek the intercession of those already in heaven? And, no, I am not denying that those in heaven pray/speak to God, and surely not to our detriment. But where does it say that they hear our prayers? Or that we should pray to them? There are many questions and problems here that have no Scriptural basis.
“co-mediatrix” shines the light on Jesus as the one mediator between God and man. it is not about Mary, same as Mother of God.
the problem you have with the communion of saints is sola scriptura and a misunderstanding of the Body of Christ. the saints are in Christ and are very much aware of what is happening on earth. Read Revelation, the martyrs cry out “how long until they are avenged” the angels are aware of what is happening on earth, are the saints in heaven less than the angels? again, sola scriptura robs one of the complete Faith.
No, I do not call Peter nor Jude liars nor do I ever say that the Bible contradicts itself. I have always admired your postings and said so on many occasions, so I am not sure where the animosity is coming from. I believe the entire Bible is God's inspired witness to us and the world.
I wholeheartedly agree that Satan is a toothless lion where believers are concerned. It was usually the old ones who went around roaring scaring up the place. My only point is I do not agree that Scripture says he is "bound" in deepest darkness at this point in time, that's all. I don't expect everyone to agree on everything - even if some expect we should - God has left certain issues unclear. As long as we are straight on the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, then we are in agreement on what matters the most. The rest, like you say, we will one day know even as we are known.
“co-redemptrix is like mother of God”
Don’t think so. Perhaps in your mind.
I am just looking at the Cathechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 964-975. If one simply looks at the footnotes, one finds that there are no citations of the Scriptures to support any of the assertions made, with the exception of footnote 513, which is specious (though often asserted). Marian devotion is obviously a development of doctrine over time, and quite extra-Biblical.
The point of comparison with the modern dispensationalist fascination with Israel is telling here, since that too is obviously a development of doctrine over time and heavily dependent on extra-Biblical input. This of course will be denied by dispensationalists.
Did you not read my post about my belief on the Lord Jesus? You keep twisting my words to your purposes just as you seem to do with scripture. I tell you that I “believe on the Lord Jesus” and you try to give me scripture that says if I deny Jesus He will deny me? Are you daft or just really slow?
>> When will the next rapture occur? <<
Look slick, I’ll give you scripture again. Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Still you have the temerity to ask me that question? You’re some piece or work dude.
You’re obsession with what I believe is really weird. I would suggest you seek help.
“the martyrs cry out ‘how long until they are avenged”
Yes, Rev. 7:10. You might want to add 11:18, but that is a little more tenuous.
“the angels are aware of what is happening on earth, are the saints in heaven less than the angels?”
Note your own elision here. The angels surely have knowledge of what transpires on earth, but where does it say that the saints do?
Look, the bottom line is this. When Christ Himself invites us to pray the Father directly, John 16:23-27, and assures us that He will hear and grant whatever we ask of Him, why would we want to invent ideas that detract from that? Do we not believe Him? Do we not trust that the Father hears? Gives? Jesus explained a great deal to His disciples about prayer from the beginning of His earthly ministry (Matthew, Sermon on the Mount) to the end (John, on the night in which He was betrayed). Why when He taught and encouraged us to pray the Father, and Himself (e.g. Matthew 9:38), and said nothing of praying to the departed saints, would a disciple of His decide to do differently?
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