Posted on 04/19/2011 10:22:26 PM PDT by malkee
FOR the past 15 years, she has been Kabbalah’s most high profile and dedicated follower. But now Madonna has apparently ditched the controversial faith and taken up with Opus Dei – the secretive Catholic sect made famous in The Da Vinci Code. The singer is said to be intrigued by the organisation and spent Friday with priests from the centre’s London HQ. The move follows her alleged falling out with some Kabbalah leaders after reports that cash raised for her Malawi charity was squandered. Last night a source claimed: “She has invested so much into Kabbalah so she was devastated by these damning accusations. “She has started exploring different religions. Madonna has always been intrigued by Opus Dei. As yet, she’s not a fully paid-up member – she’s just had informal chats.”
Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2011/04/11/madonna-ditches-kabbalah-for-opus-dei-115875-23052669/#ixzz1K2N887vV Go Camping for 95p! Vouchers collectable in the Daily and Sunday Mirror until 11th August . Click here for more information
(Excerpt) Read more at mirror.co.uk ...
It’s not the divorce that is the problem, it is the remarriage.
Her only motivation is publicity. I suggest she try Gnosticism myself.
“She can return to the Catholic faith if she wants to, but because she is divorced, she cannot be given Absolution or take part in any Sacraments without approval from the Church.
A friend of mine wanted to go back to the Church and she was divorced and remarried and was told it would take her years to get approval from the Bishop and because her current husband is not a Catholic, she may not get approval anyway...”
Two different issues here. Divorce does not keep you from the sacraments.
Divorce and remarriage (outside the church and with no annulment) will.
I have said that I’m a Roman Catholic, yet you accuse me now of not being one. Yet, you have NEVER, responded to anyone that asked you if you are a Roman Catholic, a member of the Catholic Church of Rome. Maronites, Melkites, ruthenians are all members of the Roman Catholic Church. You are not. Stop your farce, it’s a big lie.
Madonna is the perfect example of the saying, “Our hearts are restless, Lord, until we rest in Thee”
Verdugo:
You consistently elevate your opinions to a status of infallibility. You are wrong and Cronos is “Dead On.” Each ritual Church is more formally “sui juris” Church, which means “its own laws”. Thus the Maronite Catholic Church is a “sui juris” Church that uses the Liturgical Rite that developed from the Tradition of Antioch [which along with Rome and Alexandria, are the 3 major sources of all the Liturgical Families found in the Catholic Church; and Alexandria and Antioch are also the source of the all Liturgies in the Eastern Orthodox Church]. The Maronite Catholic Church, just like the Ukranian Catholic Church, as a “sui Juris” Church has in addition to its own Liturgical Tradition [which is not Roman in the sense directly from Rome], has its own Code of Canon law and its own Hierarachy and governance usually under the leadership of a Patriarch or Metropolitan who and is in Communion with the Church of Rome in that those Churches recogize the Bishop of Rome has having the Primacy by virtue of its connection to the St. Peter, first among the Apostles.
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm
I think there is another city which also became a city of origin for the Eastern rites, or is it just 3? I was thinking of the city that is now Istanbul, for the origins of those Eastern rites that went to what is now Eastern Europe. Any corrections welcome. THANKS!
That is why we pray for them bigtime at this time of the year.
Constantinople, which made the Ukraine and Byzentine rites possible.
I just simply ignore the faith trolls, not worth my time anyways.
Biggirl:
Technically, the Byzantine Rite is derived from the Antiochene tradition or at least closely associated with it. At the time of the Council of Nicea [See canon 6], we see 3 major Primatial Sees, Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Constantinopile was founded in the 4th century.
It is generally accepted that St. John Chrysostem and the Liturgy associated with him is the primary influence on what became the Byzatine Liturgical Tradition in the 4th century. The Liturgy of St. Mark associated with Alexandria also has strong influence and connection to the Byzatine Liturgy. However, I am willing to hear what our Eastern Orthodox friends here at FR have to add, clarify, me on these points.
Today, it is the Roman and Byzantine Liturgy that are predomiante in all the Liturgies used in the Apostolic Churches of the West and East.
Kabbalah comes out of Judaism, but since true Kabbalah (it’s a collection of writings like the Torah and Talmud) is based on mysticism, and numerology, the study and practice has traditionally been relegated to a very select few who could understand it. The idea being, you would need to be an 80 year old Rabbinical scholar before you could tackle it.
In modern days, Ultra Orthodox Jews reference Kabbalah, but mostly only study books analyzing it, not the original.... movements like Chabbad Lubavitcher are prone to incorporated it into their traditions, but this is in part due to the influence of it’s new in vogue popularity, as they love to do outreach and seem inviting to less observant Jews.
The Kabbalah group that Madonna joined is a cult spin off run that cons it’s followers into buying expensive water, red string bracelets, and volumes of Kabbalah texts which it’s members are told they merely have to look at the Hebrew print to consume and gain enlightenment from. They also attempt to teach Kabbalah as a basis of a quasi-stand alone-religion, separate from Judaism itself. It’s similar to Scientology in that they attract Hollywood stars and open up centers for lectures and recruiting in a similar pattern.
re:You consistently elevate your opinions to a status of infallibility.
Strawman. I didn’t say what you claim. You are totally off base here. What I said was that Cronos is a Schismatic Eastern Orthodox, not a member of the true Church of Jesus Christ is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church. The Ruthenians, Melkites, Maronites are members of the Roman Church.
The person, Cronos, who is detracting against my name, calling me a troll, is not a Roman Catholic, yet as I said, he continually is posting saying he is a Catholic. He is not a Roamn Catholic, he is a schismatic Eastern Orthodox. I don’t know why he feels the need to portray himself as a Roman Catholic, nevertheless, it is a lie.
Pay no attention to Verdugo —the ‘Sedevacantist’ guy, who
posts sedevacantist statements.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2696557/posts?page=15#15
How do you like that ‘Sedevacantist’ guy!
verdugo:
First off, I think it is improper to call The Eastern Orthodox schismatics. The mutual excommunications that were levied towards each other were lifed by the Pope on the Catholic side and the Patriarck of Constantinopile on the Orthodox side. Why can’t you leave the polemics with the Orthodox alone.
The current Roman Missal does not forbid the reception of Holy Communion by and Eastern Orthodox Christian in a Catholic Church. I would charitably suggest that you tone down your polemics against the Orthodox.
Second, and again, you pride yourself on being a Traditionalist then you should know what the meaing of the term “sui juris” means. The Melkites, Maronites are in Full Communion with the Catholic Church and Rome but they are canonicall not Roman/Latin Catholics and in fact canonically are not Roman/Latin Catholics even if they are in an area of the World where there or no Maronite/Ruthenian/Melkite parishes and it requires a Canonical request, a formal one for someone to transfer themselves from one sui juris Church to another and Rome does not usually allow someone to transfer from one sui juris Church to the other unless their are legitimate reaons that both the Western Catholic Bishop and Eastern Catholic Bishop both agree on.
So my argument was not a strawman as you are canonically and technically incorrect regarding “Maronites, Melkites” being Roman Catholic. They are canonically not Roman Catholic they are canonically Maronite Catholic or Melkite Catholic or Ukranian Catholic and are fully Catholic by being in communion with the Church of Rome and thus with each other by virture of their communion with Rome.
Very much a strawman, and so is this posting above. Here's what I wrote: "What I said was that Cronos is a Schismatic Eastern Orthodox, not a member of the true Church of Jesus Christ is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church. The Ruthenians, Melkites, Maronites are members of the Roman Church".
I said they were members of the Roman Church. That is the name of the Catholic Church. There are different rites, but is not canonically and technically incorrect to call the “Maronites, Melkites” part of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church. That is the description of the Catholic Church used in the 1st Vatican Coucil, and by Pius XII in Mystici Corporus.
re:I think it is improper to call The Eastern Orthodox schismatics. The mutual excommunications that were levied towards each other were lifed by the Pope on the Catholic side and the Patriarck of Constantinopile on the Orthodox side.
They are schismatics, and thus I call them what they are, it is called reality. I do that to distinguish them from the Eastern Catholics. The "mutual lifting of the excommunications was a canard,a fraud, a deception, it is a meaningless, "nice gesture". I did a whole thread on it.
The LIFTING THE ANATHEMAS HOAX
(DECEMBER 7, 1965)- THE ‘LIFTING’ OF THE ANATHEMAS-
On 7 December 1965, Cardinal Jan Willebrands read to the bishops of Vatican II the declaration of Pope Paul VI lifting the excommunication that the Envoy of Pope Leo IX had imposed on the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Cerularius, in 1054. At the same time, in the Patriarchal Cathedral of Saint George in Constantinople, the synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate ‘lifted’ the anathemas imposed on the papal ambassadors in 1054 by Patriarch Michael Cerularius and the patriarchal synod of Constantinople and subsequently ratified and adopted by all orthodox churches.
This document above of no juridical value whatsoever, just a nice gesture is all it is. Michael Cerularius remains an excommunicated.
1) For one, the Patriarch of Constantinople has no authority to bind any of the other Orthodox Churches, as a matter of fact his Patriarchy consists of only 3.5 million people.
2) Pope Paul VI has no authority to ‘lift” the excommunication of Michael Cerularius, since he died almost 1000 years ago. You can't “lift” the excommunication of a dead man, he is already in hell for all eternity. It's a different matter if a pope were to undertake to disprove the validity of an excommunication (like Joan of Arc), but that is not what Paul VI did, he just simply signed the declaration above.
verdugo:
So you are using Vatican I terminology only. Hmmmm, so Pope Benedict’s terminology does not suffice for you is that correct.
As for what you said, it was the Patriarch of Constantinopile who excommuncated the Cardinal in 1054 and vice a versa [Can a Cardinal legitimately excommunicate a Patriarch] which is what Cardinal Humbert did along with the other papal legates. In other words, they had “no authority to do what they did” and then the Patriarch, i.e.Cerularius excommunicated the Cardinal Humbert and the other papal legates.
So Pope Paul VI and the Patriarch of Constantinopile nullified the anathamas, which how do you no they were not valid for God is outside of time and how can you a traditionalist Catholic be so quick to put Patriarch Cerularius in Hell or Heaven for that matter. What happen to Purgatory Verdugo? certaintly you are not rejecting that are you so maybe the Patriarch is in purgatory. Who knows? which means you don’t know.
So yes Pope Paul VI has more authority to nullify an illegitiamate excommunication levied by Cardinal Humbert against the Patriarch of Constantinopile because that authority in Catholic theology could only be used by the Pope or a Council of the Church. Cardinal Humbert had no authority to do what he did and for that matter, I don’t think the Patriarch had the authority to do what he did.
The definition of the Church that I posted is the one always used by the Church. I only referenced Vatican I and Pope Pius XII because English speaking Catholics on FR were not familiar with the definition when I first posted it. I got tired of explaining it, and so, I always put next to it that it's from Fist Vatican Council and Pope Pius XII. The definition always used by the church. As far a Pope Benedict XVIth’s definition, I don't know that it's any different, perhaps you could post it.
As far as Cerularis’s excommunication, it's gone through 1000+ years uncontested. What you write I have to assume you are just winging, unless you post some sources from the last 1000 + years. Besides, it does not change the fact that the Eastern Orthodox are schismatics and outside of the Church, where there is no salvation.
The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:
“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.
re: certainly you are not rejecting that maybe the Patriarch is in purgatory. Who knows? which means you don’t know.
If a person is objectively excommunicated, they are objectively outside of the Church, and thus they are objectively in Hell. Purgatory is only for those saved, those who die as Catholics. Excommunication is no little thing. If Abp. Lefebvre is validly, canonically excommunicated (his excommunication was not lifted by B16), then he is in Hell. Excommunications are not subjective.
ping
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