[MarkBsnr]

The church fathers transcribed, interpreted, translated, copied and SAVED the bible for you to read....thank God for them....and they wrote it by hand!!!

My friend, you are battling against the very identity of those who oppose the Church. The Church Fathers are objects of ridicule to them, except when an out of context snippet may be used offhandedly to support some crazy belief that they are trying to put over on Christians as Gospel belief. Paul spent a lot of time warning about those who oppose and use the Church for their own ends.

2 Thessalonians 2: 1 1 We ask you, brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling with him, 2 not to be shaken out of your minds suddenly, or to be alarmed either by a "spirit," 2 or by an oral statement, or by a letter allegedly from us to the effect that the day of the Lord is at hand. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed, 3 the one doomed to perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God, 4 claiming that he is a god-- 5 do you not recall that while I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, 5 that he may be revealed in his time.

We see the heralds of the evil one. They are everywhere, and like to cluster on the end times discussions, as if they have Gnostic knowledge of when the Lord will come again. Paul warns us of their deceit.

[Cronos]

Mark My friend, you are battling against the very identity

Well spoken Mark. The problem is that for these folks, their entire identity is based on negativity. They are not Christian, that is how they identify themselves -- note that they will not tell you their beliefs, they will obfuscate.

A question like "Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of God, begotten not made" gets no answer

These people have no beliefs of their own, only negatives -- they will only deride Christianity while at the same time not revealing their non-Christian beliefs

[Cronos]

You can ask them the following questions and I guarantee, you will not get an answer.

1. believe in something as basic as Jesus was always God (Trinitarian position) or that Jesus Christ was man made God (Oneness PENTECOSTAL Protestant position) or the Angel Michael (Seventh Day Adventist Ellen G White teaching)?
2. believe that one MUST talk in tongues (Oneness Pentecostal) to display faith or not?
3. believe that God pre-damns people to hell or not?
4. believe that Jesus came only for the salvation of a few or was He Savior of the world?
5. believe in soul sleep or not?
6. agree or disagree with worshipping on a Sunday or not?
7. believe that we still have spiritual gifts like prophecy amongst us or not?
8. believe that grace can be resisted or not?
9. believe in imputed righteousness or not?

10. Does your group believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

11. Does your group believe in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, The Only Son of God, Eternally Begotten of the Father, begotten, not made, ONE in being with the Father, through whom all things was made
12. Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son became incarnate in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, was born of a virgin through the Holy Spirit. That God truly became human in Jesus Christ.
    
    Does your group believe as we Christians do, that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God or doesn't your group believe that He was a spirit or ghost
13. Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son was crucified, DIED and was buried. Does your group believe that or does your group believe that Jesus was not crucified or died, but was spirited away?
14. Does your group believe that for our sake Jesus Christ our Lord, God and Savior rose again in fulfilment of the scritpures?
15. Does your group believe that Jesus Christ, God the Son was crucified, DIED and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, ascended into heaven?
16. Does your group believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life?

You won't get a response from the standard detractors as they do not even know what they believe in, only that they hate Christians.