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It goes to show the extremes some people will go to to deflect attention from something which makes their religion appear in an unfavorable light.

Sorry that your foray onto the RF should be greeted in such a juvenile fashion.

Those claiming to be Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard of behavior than that. I can’t imagine how anyone who would refer to themselves as a Christian would resort to such vulgar tactics. Christians are supposed to be followers of Christ.

Could you imagine Christ making those kind of innuendos about people and their character? No wonder the non-religious consider religious people hypocrites. Sometimes the world has a better handle on what is appropriate behavior for those who name the name of Christ to behave like than those who make the claim.

There are some prayer threads and devotional threads that are worth checking out and are absolutely off limits to any kind of contention or impropriety.

This has been my 1st foray into the Religion Forum and it will be my last. I’ll gladly discuss politics publicly but have no desire to be a part of the juvenile tactics of using “sects” as innuendo, etc. I find it quite distasteful. I’ve never been considered a prude, however, I would NEVER post some of the things that have been posted here in the name of religion!

Well, when I first came onto the Religion Forum to find like-minded Christians of all stripes who wanted to discuss mutual love of God and all things related, I found much the same as you found. Sadly, everywhere I turned, every remark I made was ridiculed, dogpiled, laughed at, and my Church was dragged through the mud with every post. When I complained, as you are doing, I was told to stick to the ecumenical and caucus threads, since I was clearly too thin-skinned to participate in open Religion Forum threads, which are "anything goes" unless it is Catholics making an effective argument.

Just take a look at the anti-Catholic posts. I cannot imagine Christ Jesus, Risen Son of Almighty God and the Blessed Virgin Mary, saying the things about the Catholic Church that pass for everyday ordinary conversation on the RF, either. So, I commiserate with you. Ain't it awful? If we can't defend our faith, or can't handle the heat, we just don't belong here. Nope. No way.

My first foray here involved watching a Gatsbyesque participant lie about Catholic doctrine. Within a short while the same person suggested that my eyewitness testimony was not to be believed without corroboration.

By way of contrast, in my early years here, before I knew what a Caucus was, I blundered onto a Protestant Caucus thread about whether the teaching on predestination encouraged laziness. I don't subscribe to the popular notion of predestination but I've thought about it for 45+ years, since I read an essay by Sidney Hook when I was 16.

So I posted my thoughts that logically one would be predestined to laziness or industry, and that Spiritually the confidence that God had chosen one for Himself would IMHO tend to give the kind of joy and peace that overflows into works of love.

Note: this is a comment on a doctrine I don't hold. I was thanked for being open to thinking about the idea and advised what a “caucus” was.

I long for, hoped for, that sort of discussion of the central ideas of our faith. But what I found was not just ignorance of Catholic teaching but a positive aversion to learning about it. I found mountains of sophistries. I found terms of abuse. Above all I found a zero-sum-game approach to Christian “fellowship” with people (on either side) all too willing to say others aren't Christian.

This has been one of the nagging riddles and sorrows of my life. I am GLAD I have a splitting headache today after a sleepless night so that perhaps a loving God who, like all good Fathers, shares his work with his sons even when they're terrible at it, will let me offer this blinding ache (which is now fading, praise IHS!) for his children on the RF.

All this, “I belong to Paul,” “I to Apollos,” “I to Christ,” “I to Luther” “I to Darby,” ... We ALL have ample scriptural warning to avoid just this sort of thing.

The question then becomes will we,CAN we “fight for peace”? CAN we just ask one another to shut up, to LISTEN, REALLY listen, (which always implies a certain placing in hock of cherished notions, at least for the duration of the discussion.)

Part of the point of my comparison with Islam is precisely that I have found some Catholics but many, many non-Catholics who seem to think that real conversation with others would be somehow morally contaminating. I feel a little like Francis of Assissi (can't spell) who was allowed to address some Muslim leader (was it Saladin?) because the Muslims thought his fervor meant he was a lunatic and therefore under Allah's protection.

In any event, you have come late to this very unpleasant family. To me, personally, the sophistries, lies, and condemnations are FAR more scandalous than a little juvenile word play. YMMV. But from where I sit, Notwithstanding is acting like a human back board. Just as the non-Catholics have returned my most irenic questions by calling me an idolator outside the Spirit, ntwthstndng gives a ludicrously formulaic denunciation in return for posts by non-Catholics.
Incidentally, I think it is important that the same non-Catholics who earnestly deny meaning any of the abuse and denunciations personally seem very personally wounded by ntwthstndng's posts.

I guess a part of me thinks that ntwthstnding should stand down now. The point has been clearly made. But the response tells me that he whose wrath is great because he knows his time is short is still prince of the RF.

For MY parting zinger: with the exception of some non-Catholics whom I can count on one hand, men and women open to the Love and who seek to enjoy, serve, and glorify him with the constant renewal of their minds, I would see little difference between leaving the Catholic Church and giving myself a lobotomy while snorting meth.