Posted on 03/25/2011 10:24:54 PM PDT by Balt
I’m with ya - I have tremendous admiration for JPII and believe he was a man of profound personal holiness.
But the whole cult of “santo subito” strikes me as celebrity worship.
And he let the church run wild under his watch (in fairness this was really the aftermath of the effete Paul VI.)
I wish you had marked this as Catholic/Orthodox caucus though. The nutters will be arriving soon.
LOL! What an idiot!
I have a shorter version: People are impatient, nearsighted and self-indulgent.
You might recall that as Year 2000 drew near, it seemed that all the “important” people and events of the millennium (let alone 2) were after 1900 and they mostly stacked up after 1950.
It used to be that it was hundreds of years for beatification. Now they want Paul II (a wonderful man, mind you), Mother Theresa (also wonderful) and who knows the next “really, really nice” person beatified immediately.
The Church may be trying to stay relevant, but in selling her soul, is the price worth it?
wow, who died and made you Pope?
ping
He was a big part of the fall of communism along with Margaret Thatcher and President Reagan. That alone is worth making him a Saint.
Absolutely.
bump for later
I think I see someone grinding a great big ax, although not one I’ve seen too often. Based on the two paragraphs prior to the conclusion it seems to be based upon resentment by some of our non-Latin Eastern Catholic brothers against the recent efforts at ending the Great Schism with the Orthodox. I am sad to say that it reminds me of the Parable of the Prodigal Son, when the faithful son protested to the father about the welcome given to the prodigal son. If our family is to be reunited, do not resent those who have been estranged for so long.
"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it. Right is right even if no one is doing it." (Saint Augustine)
It's striking how few in the mainline Catholic media writes about all these OBVIOUS flaws in JPII. It seems as if they are all in it just for the money. They don't want to loose their jobs.
What was once obvious to any Catholic, is now a revelation.
The average Joe in the pews that still goes to mass (95% of Catholics in the Catholic countries of Europe do not go to mass), is likely a feelings oriented type, the only men I think that could tolerate the typical effeminate new mass environment( "hug of peace", hands out in the air, charismatic, are non-reasoning feelings oriented). No surprise that they would think JPII is "the Great", he put on a good stage production, all feelings, no substance.
Paul VI was Pope in 1975 not JPII.
The Great Schism involved 3 different Popes in the Western Church. The Schism between the Orthodox and the Latin Church is more accurately known as the Eastern Schism.
You seem to have problems with Vatican I and Papal Primacy on matters of faith and doctrine.
If the Catholic laity refuses to follow the rules with respect to Humnae Vitae is the Pope supposed to micromanage the spritual lives of one billion plus Catholics worldwide?
You have failed to cite Holy Scripture.
You have shamefully failed to mention the Theotokos in your screed.
I think you are a closet SSPX agent provacateur who is JEALOUS because JPII excommunicated Lefebrve over his uncanonical consecration of bishops.
Pope Benedict XVI is going to ‘close the deal’ with our Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ in the East. The Holy Father will form a ‘strategic alliance’ with the Orthodox AND will Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of the Theotokos in Union with ALL the bishops of the World.
The SSPX will have had nothing to do with it either and their heads will explode when Patriarch Kirill and Metropolitan Hilarion are given Red Hats.
Film at 11.
re:He was a big part of the fall of communism along with Margaret Thatcher and President Reagan. That alone is worth making him a Saint.
What planet are you living in? This “fall of Communism” is an old ruse now. Catch up on the real world! Practically all of South America has gone Marxist and you have your head in the sand.
Explain to me why are you concerned with such internal matters of the true Church of Jesus Christ,the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church? You are obviously a schismatic Eastern Orthodox.
I don't care one iota about the internal affairs of all the false religions out there in the world, including yours, why your concern about this article about the beatification of JPII? He's not your pope! You reject papal supremacy.
All I have seen are attacks on the messengers, the writers, but not one debate on the subject. This is typical of liberals, who avoid the arena of debate on ideas. It is far better to just address the subject directly. If there is something wrong in the evidence presented, it would have come out in the wash in the months I've been on FR.Where is your champion?
Most of the serious Catholic apologists have sworn off FR religious disputation for Lent. Perhaps you’ve heard of Lent?
I disagree with this article in terms of its assessment of the Orthodox, but, as far as its analysis of JPII, there is much truth in it.
JPII was a proponent of what the Spanish refer to as “pensamiento debil,” or “weak thought.” Essentially, he glossed over everything and hoped that all would work out well in the end.
As an administrator, he was a disaster, and let really evil people and intellectual tendencies become established in the Church simply because he wanted to be popular with the world and the press and thus did not oppose them publicly. He could have reversed or prevented much of the damage done by Vatican II at the time he assumed the Papacy after the mysterious and untimely death of JPI, but he chose not to and instead presided over the unraveling of the community of the faithful, the liturgy and morality.
That said, I think he was probably personally holy, and he certainly died a heroic death. For someone who was very media conscious, to be photographed and displayed in his weakened, painful last years must have been very hard indeed. And I think he was genuinely pro-life, although he did little to support this when faced with the dissidents in the Church. Finally, while he was way too trusting of evil people, it was probably because he really didn’t want to think ill of anyone; yet in some ways, this is one of the jobs of a Pope.
>> if for no other reason than to see a good fireworks show. :) <<
The word for that is trolling.
Correction:
95% of Catholics in the Catholic countries of Western Europe do not go to Mass.
Regards,
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