Controversial book on salvation has Catholics and evangelicals asking for clarity

cna ^ | March 24, 2011 | Benjamin Mann

[CynicalBear]

>>The other a possibility...<<

The other is NOT a possibility. There is only ONE way, to accept Jesus as personal Savior understanding that HE paid for our sins and believing on HIM as Lord and Savior.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your reply.

I was taught that Jesus saves, but it’s not up to us to tell Him who or when or where.

Perhaps this includes instances where individuals have failed to receive the Gospel message by no fault of their own.

[CynicalBear]

So I’ll say it once again in a different way. Why go into an area of people who have never heard and risk the eternity of someone who would have been saved had they never heard but when they heard didn’t believe and were lost? Why would Jesus tell us to spread the gospel if those people who never here of Him would have been saved anyway.

I’ll answer the question for you. He wouldn’t have told us to “go into all the world”. All are condemned until they hear and believe.

[Some Fat Guy in L.A.]

Luke 16:19 - 31

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

So Jesus says ain’t nobody repenting after they are dead. I’ll take Jesus’ word over Rob Bell’s every time.

[D-fendr]

Why would Jesus tell us to spread the gospel…

This is the normal way to spread the Good News, the way the Church was established, grew and still grows.

…if those people who never here of Him would have been saved anyway.

We don't know this one way or the other. We allow that Our Saviour saves whom He saves for His reasons - in all cases.

All are condemned until they hear and believe.

Would it bother you personally if Jesus saved someone who failed to receive the Gospel message by no fault of their own?

[NYer]

Thank you for the post and ping! The Rich Man and Lazarus is one my favorite gospels.

[ConservativeTeen]

I am familiar with this false teacher, sadly he is popular with some of my friends. Every time I hear of Rob Bell I think of this passage:

“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

People like what they perceive to be the positive aspects of Christianity (God loves us, do unto others, etc.) but do not like what they think are negative doctrines (Hell, sin, etc.) so preachers like Rob Bell come along and promote universalism and the masses gobble it up since it fits their own beliefs on the afterlife. As Christians we should have our beliefs fit what the Bible teaches, not twist the Bible to try to make it say what we believe.

[LadyDoc]

The Catholic Church denies the possibility of either post-mortem repentance or a temporary hell, and most Catholic theologians have regarded universal salvation as an impossibility

silly me. I thought that the "temporary" hell was called purgatory, and that one could not repent after death, but you could repent up to the moment of death. Those who sin from weakness of the body or mind will find more mercy than the arrogant...indeed, the main ones who Christ warned of deserving hell were clergy who misused their offices...

Either way, I doubt any Catholics would worry about a non catholic preacher who decides two thousand years after the fact that Jesus was wrong.

[redgolum]

God doesn't fit into our nice little philosophical boxes. Bell is trying to impose on God his notion of what is fair or not.

God is just and merciful. He is the definition of both, and we in our present condition are in no position to judge the merits of either.

[D-fendr]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

[Iscool]

Would it bother you personally if Jesus saved someone who failed to receive the Gospel message by no fault of their own?

Wouldn't bother me...Those folks will be judged by what's in their hearts, even tho they have not heard the Gospel...The Bible is full of all kinds of things we need to know...

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

[Campion]

Why in the world would we be told to spread the gospel if they were going to be saved anyway?

1. We aren't guaranteed that "they are going to be saved anyway". It may be a possibility, or it may not. The only guarantees come through the Gospel.
2. God can work miracles, but normally, God works through us. In fact it's a sin against faith to expect God to work a miracle to do for you something you can do for yourself.
3. Why bother asking the Boss, "Why?", anyway? He said to do it, so do it.

[D-fendr]

Thanks for your post..

[TASMANIANRED]

Judge not lest ye be judged.

I thinks it’s best left to God.

[BelleAl]

Agree.

I am called to the witness stand, not the judge’s bench. He decides who is going where, not me. I refuse to engage in arguments as this.