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To: dangus; Just mythoughts; Claud; RnMomof7; Quix
See, although most concordances DIRECTLY LIE and claim that the Greek word is “charitou,” the word is actually, “Ketocharitoumene,” meaning “completely filled with grace.”

Regarding Luke 1:28 – the only people lying here is the RCC. Here’s the text IN GREEK:

καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.

κεχαριτωμένη, is the pf. pass. ptcp. of χαριτόω (charitoō). It is the single Greek word kexaritomena and means highly favored, make accepted, make graceful, etc. REPEATED: It is a passive participle derived from charitoō. It does not mean "full of grace" or ‘completely filled with grace’ which is "plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace) in the Greek. What does it mean then? κεχαριτωμένη and its definitions :

5923 χαριτόω (charitoō): vb.; Str 5487; TDNT 9.372—LN 88.66 show kindness graciously give, freely give (Eph 1:6); as a passive participle, subst., “one highly favored.”

5487 χαριτόω [charitoo /khar•ee•to•o/] v. From 5485; TDNT 9:372; TDNTA 1298; GK 5923; Two occurrences; AV translates as “be highly favoured” once, and “make accepted” once. 1 to make graceful. 1a charming, lovely, agreeable. 2 to peruse with grace, compass with favour. 3 to honour with blessings.

There is only one place where ‘full of grace’ is actually found in the GREEK text (John 1:14) throughout Scripture. John 1:14 says, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” The GREEK text:

Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας·

Notice the difference: πλήρης (plērēs) and χάρις (charis) in John 1:14 and κεχαριτωμένη, in Luke 1:28.

The only place where ‘full of grace’ is actually found in the GREEK TEXT, i.e., “plaras karitos’ (NOT kexaritomena [κεχαριτωμένη]) is in reference to CHRIST, not Mary. AND HE STANDS ALONE.

The RCC gets it wrong because the RCC uses the Latin Vulgate, a Latin translation done by Jerome in the 4th century, rather than the Greek text in Luke 1:28. Erroneously translating κεχαριτωμένη, as “full of grace” instead of “favored one”. Every other translation (which btw actually translates from the GREEK text rather than from the LATIN) translates Luke 1:28 as ‘favored’ not ‘full of grace’:

1. The Nestle Aland 26th edition, Greek New Testament Interlinear - "having gone into her he said rejoice one having been favored, the master is with you."
2. The NRSV English Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament - And he came to her and said, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
3. American Standard Version - "And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee."
4. English Standard Version - "And he came to her and said, Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!
5. Today's English Version - '"The angel came to her and said, “Peace be with you! The Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you!”
6. King James Version- "And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
7. New American Standard Bible - "And coming in, he said to her, Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.
8. New International Version - "The angel went to her and said, Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.
9. New King James Version - "And having come in, the angel said to her, Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!
10. Revised Standard Version - "And he came to her and said, 'Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!'
11. New Revised Standard Version - And he came to her and said, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
12. The New Century Version - The angel came to her and said, “Greetings! The Lord has blessed you and is with you.”
13. New Living Translation - Gabriel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!'”
14. The Cambridge Paragraph Bible - And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, 'thou that art 'highly favoured, 'the Lord is with thee: 'blessed art thou among women.
15. The Holman Christian Standard Bible - "And the angel came to her and said, “Rejoice, favored woman! The Lord is with you."
16. International Standard Version - '"The angel'' came to her and said, “'Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you!"

#1 - Now you can either believe every single Greek scholar on the planet who actually worked from the GREEK manuscripts translated Luke 1:28 WRONG, and the RCC is the only one who got it right; or you can do as I do and acknowledge facts that it’s the RCC who is trying to swim upstream on this passage.

#2 - Had Luke intended to use ‘full of grace’ instead of ‘favored one’ he would have said plaras karitos not kexaritomena. But he didn’t because he knew the only one ever born sinless was Christ. Had Mary been without sin she would NOT have said “God my Savior” in Luke 1:47 – ‘Theos egō sōtēr” (θεῷ τῷ σωτῆρί μου·) - egō [μου·] is personal, it is translated ME, MY, MINE. You cannot get around μου· in that passage no matter how much one tries to corrupt the text. One without sin does not need a Savior, only a sinner needs a Savior. If Mary was without sin, then she LIED in this passage! That would then make her a sinner wouldn’t it?!?!

131 posted on 03/20/2011 8:35:16 PM PDT by conservativegramma (u)
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To: conservativegramma

PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR FAITHFULNESS TO HIS WORD AND TRUTH.


134 posted on 03/20/2011 8:44:35 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: conservativegramma

Hi CG, I’m am interested in this post, and would like to know the origin. If it isn’t your own work, but is authored by another person or group of people, would you mind sharing the specific source with us?

Thanks in advance :)


135 posted on 03/20/2011 8:44:50 PM PDT by annie laurie (All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost)
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To: conservativegramma
lol ... thats what I get for not reading all the posts before responding, I could have been asleep in bed an hour ago lol ...

You answered this completely before I posted.

A very nice post maam. Thank you; I also posted a brief response though not as detailed as yours.

139 posted on 03/20/2011 9:40:45 PM PDT by dartuser ("Dealing with preterists is like cleaning the litter box ... but at least none of the cats are big.")
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To: conservativegramma; dartuser

It’s what you’re lexicons are translating as “highly” that signifies “completely.” But thanks for contradicting dart user who is falsely claiming that it’s all simply the present tense of “charitou.”

The obvious difference between Christ and Mary is that Mary has received grace from Christ, where Christ possesses his own grace.


143 posted on 03/21/2011 4:21:38 AM PDT by dangus
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To: conservativegramma
I really think it's too specific to say that we are lying.

There is only one place where ‘full of grace’ is actually found in the GREEK text (John 1:14) throughout Scripture.

In Acts 6:8 Stephan is described as πληρης χαριτος the literal which translation of which is "full of grace", as you say.

Incidentally, while you say "plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace), I think pleres charitos would be a better transliteration, the η being the 'eta', the Greek 'long e' and the χ being the "chi", whose exact pronunciation was being debated when I was doing this stuff, but most people seem to go with the 'ch' of the Scots "loch".

I think citing the AV for definitive translation is assuming the thing to be proved. But I also think that we simply do not have enough instances of the use of the perfect passive participle of χαριτόω to make any definitive statements, one way or the other, about its meaning. To those of us who agree with Catholic ecclesiology, "full of grace" would be the 'dynamic equivalent' of the p.p.p. in the context of unfolding doctrine. And to those who don't, "full of grace" would seem to be over-reaching.

That's how it looks to me, anyway.

I really need an LXX. The oldest use of the verb seems to be in Sirach 18:17, but that's not enough info to develop a sense of any 'traditional' or 'technical' meaning. It's frustrating.

One without sin does not need a Savior, only a sinner needs a Savior. If Mary was without sin, then she LIED in this passage! That would then make her a sinner wouldn’t it?!?!

The principle point of the original post is that that simply does not follow. I could say that my rabies inoculations "saved" me from rabies without implying that I ever had rabies, and my seatbelt "saved" me from injury without implying I had injury. "The guardrail saved me from falling off the edge," doesn't mean "I fell off the edge."

Further (and finally) to say someone said something not true is not to say someone lied. I do not think you lied when you wrote, There is only one place where ‘full of grace’ is actually found in the GREEK text (John 1:14). You were mistaken; it's not true, but that doesn't make it a lie. I do not think you intended to deceive.

149 posted on 03/21/2011 6:34:17 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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