Posted on 03/19/2011 10:57:34 PM PDT by dangus
"My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior." -- Luke 1:47
It is undeniable, that "Savior" in this sense alludes to being saved from sin. So the question is: If Mary had never sinned, or was never guilty of original sin, as the Catholic Church states, why would she need a Savior?
As in English, in Greek word for "Savior" ("soter") comes from the word for "safe" ("sozo"). In modern English, the connection between "safe" and "heal" is largely lost, but "salvation" retains the root, "salv," from "salve," meaning "heal" or "a healing ointment." Thus, the notion of a "savior" being one who restores health, or undoes harm is not a completely incorrect notion. But neither should it overshadow the fundamental meaning that a "savior" is one who prevents harm, as much as one who restores one from harm.
Therefore, it should hardly be surprising that one who has been prevented from original sin should rejoice in her "savior" from original sin.
In fact, the term "savior" in Greek has a connotation of a god who preserves his people. As explained in the Protestant lexicon, Strong's Concordance,:
The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influence.(Wigram) The word soter was a common Greek epithet for the gods (e.g., Zeus, Apollo, and Hermes), active personalities in world affairs (e.g., Epicurus) and rulers (e.g., Ptolemy Philopator, and later Roman Emporers). (cf. LSJ and BDAG)God certainly was Mary's Lord and Protector, who kept her safe from sin. That does not mean she sinned.
But doesn't Paul state that "all have sinned?" Is Paul wrong?
Not in the least. As Protestant theologian Charles Spurgeon explains (in an alternate context) the meaning of "all," (in Greek, "pas"):
"... 'The whole world is gone after him.' Did all the world go after Christ? 'Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.' Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).In context, what Paul is saying is that Jews (in general) and Greeks (in general), and every other people (in general) have sinned. To establish that Jews are no better than any other people, he quotes the prophet Isaiah,
What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.In this passage, the prophet is describing the Jews around him, and uses the phrase, "There is no-one righteous, not one." It's been argued that the prophet is describing in a prophetic sense not just the Jews around him, but the universal condition of man, as a result of original sin. It might make sense to say that all we who have committed original sin are not righteous in a sense, since our righteousness is imputed righteousness, earned not by our own effort, but by Christ's sacrifice on our behalf.
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
"Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways and the way of peace they do not know.
" "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
But that same passage asserts that not one has done anything good at all, that they know not the way of peace, and there is no fear of God among anyone. Even if our righteousness is merely imputed, and our ability to do good relies entirely on Christ acting through us, regenerated Christians do good, know the way of peace and fear God. As such, we know that Paul is using that passage only to establish that Jews need Christ as much as Gentiles, for they have been as wicked as Gentiles, he is not using that passage to describe saved Christians.
But the Blessed Virgin Mary lived (in part) before the Holy Sacrifice, the Resurrection and the Descent of the Holy Spirit? How can she have been saved from sin?
The bible explicitly states that salvation occurred anticipating these events. For the prophet Simeon stated upon seeing the infant Jesus, "Mine eyes have seen thy salvation." How could this be? Whose salvation has he witnessed?
Mary's.
Thank you for your reply. May God bless you and bring you peace.
Actually, the Nicene Creed's purpose is as a yardstick of correct belief and specifically against heresy. In addition to the the Catholic and Anglican Churches it is normative to the Lutheran Church and most Protestant denominations.
Mary is the mother of Christ, not the mother of God.
Words mean things.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
It also psychology, the idea that the despite having been the only who “was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin,” (Heb. 4:15) and who ever lives to make intercession for us, (Heb. 7:25) Mary is more accessible and compassionate.
See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2637924/posts?page=1078#1078
Words mean things. Saying that she's the mother of God is disingenuous as it is an erroneous statement. Mary is the mother of Christ, not God. God had no mother. He is eternal.
Jesus obeying Mary and Joseph as a child is not the same as Jesus doing everything she told Him as an adult. As a child, to not sin, He needed to obey them. Once He became an adult, he was no longer under their authority.
This is the example of Jesus' opinion of any exaltation of His mother.
Luke 11:27-28 27As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!" 28But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"
Catholics should quit disobeying Jesus direction and elevating His mother like that. He made it very clear what He thought of that. Why don't Catholics get a clue?
Thank you for your post.
Christ is God according to our beliefs: “ true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father.”
Thanks for your reply.
You know, it’s no wonder the Catholic church’s teaching on the Holy Spirit is so pathetically weak. they don’t need Him. They have assigned to Mary all the work of the Holy Spirit and treat her as they treat the rest of the Godhead.
With all due respect, i think stating that someone is ignoring a point is often done as an observation, as in saying that one is failing to address an issue or the import of a command. Perhaps “seem” to ignore would be better.
That would have been better.
AMEN!!!
PREACH IT, SISTER!!!
Sadly, the only time Catholics will do that is AFTER they have accepted Christ and know the truth.
I do not know of any former Catholics who have not seen the truth of what you said and forsaken that idol worship. Every last ex-Catholic will admit that it really is worship of Mary in practice.
You would think.
Of course, I guess Catholicism needs to make the pregnancy and birth experience dirty somehow.
If Jesus is going to come to earth, live as a human, be tempted in every way just as we are, then He needs to be born of a human being that He came to redeem. What do they expect, that someone would find Him under a cabbage leaf?
Sadly, the only time Catholics will do that is AFTER they have accepted Christ and know the truth.
I do not know of any former Catholics who have not seen the truth of what you said and forsaken that idol worship. Every last ex-Catholic will admit that it really is worship of Mary in practice
INDEED!
I wonder how many names for Christ they have.
Some of those terms are just blasphemous.
I’m surprised that their tongues don’t burn off calling her such things.
I am off to bed and have little to add without repeating what I’ve already referenced in Orthodox Christian Theology, Trinitarian belief, and the Nicene Creed.
Thank you for your courteous and respectful replies and discussion. May God bless you all, and may each of us know the unity we have in our Saviour Jesus Christ as He prayed: “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.”
Good night.
Well, yeah, even a little kid knows to ask Mom first or to hide behind Mom when Dad wants to smack their behind. It is sad that we so miss the concept of how much our Heavenly Father loves us and how little our earthly fathers are like him. It took many years to finally "get" that and how incredibly wonderful it is to grasp.
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