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To: JLLH
I always discuss these matters in a peacefuf way. And I always refer to Scripture.

Christ’s death has made us without fault

But then answer the rest of scripture

"Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11–12). How can you fall if you are without fault?

You indeed just might be saved: “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Galatians 1:4 Might is a far cry from certainty.

And only IF you remain in his kindness. "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" Rom. 11:22–23 Clearly, you can be cut off. No certainty whatsoever.

And only IF you endure: Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. (2 Tim. 2:11–12). So what happens if you don’t endure?

And only IF you stand firm: [Jesus said] “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Mark 13:13 And what happens if you don’t stand firm?

And only IF you do what God wants: “God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. (Rom. 2:6–8). Clearly what you do matters.

43 posted on 03/08/2011 11:51:54 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive

“How can you fall if you are without fault?”

You are confusing 2 different topics. The statement “Christ’s death has made us without fault” refers to a person’s eternal standing before God or salvation.

While we are eternally saved from our sins because of Christ’s atonement, we still need to be santified and set apart for service here on earth. Eternally, we are blameless, but on a temporal level there are still consequences we have to deal with for our sin.

All the other points you mentioned about remaining firm, remaining in His kindness, etc. demonstrate there are some who do not have a sincere faith. Many will claim to be followers of Jesus but will wither away for a variety of reasons. Those who have a true faith and have believed will never fall away.


48 posted on 03/08/2011 12:08:00 PM PST by Turtlepower
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To: FatherofFive

OK. Here goes. Context matters. Let’s back up what’s said in Romans to give the context: Speaking of the Jews and the Gentiles and who was now being given the Gospel and why: Romans 11:20 says “Well, through UNBELIEF they are broken off, and thou standest BY FAITH...” and again in verse 23: “And they also if they abide not still in UNBELIEF, shall be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.” Faith, belief - all there.

2 Timothy 2:11-12 is speaking of those who would deny Christ - a clear act of unbelief. If one uses this to say that certain acts can damn one (which, in essence is the flip side of believing one can earn salvation), then what of Peter?

Mark 13:13 - again, as discussed earlier, this is speaking of the sanctification process.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12 if read carefully will show to be speaking of pride and sin, not damnation. Let’s continue on with the next verse: “There hath no temptation taken you, but such as appertaineth to man and God is faithful, which will not suffer you to be tempted above that you be able, but will even give the issue with the temptation that ye may be able to bear it.” It’s an encouragement to the brethren not to think they can resist sin in their own flesh. Has nothing to do with earning salvation.

Abraham was justified through FAITH which was evident in his actions. No mystery there. No contradiction.

Galations 1:4 - the words “might be” isn’t an expression of doubt but a grammatical construction - the subjunctive. Otherwise the verse makes no sense and becomes ridiculous in meaning: God isn’t sure Who can be saved or that He’s up to the job? Ridiculous!

Romans 2:6-8 is speaking of believers versus nonbelievers and has already been addressed in post 34.

Philippians 2:12 has already been discussed - see my post and also post 21.


79 posted on 03/08/2011 2:07:22 PM PST by JLLH
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